I know that developing a racing game isn't easy, and I dont expect a console racer to ever reach real 'sim' quality, but for what Forza promises, it seems it delivers very little in terms of real racing satisfaction. 

Simply put, people who drive with AWD, ABS, and TCS should not be able to dominate.  In reality, thats not how racing is.  Sure, its fun to allow all different types of cars to race with each other, but the way it works just doesn't seem realistic.  AWD cars do not pull away from the startlight in real life like they do in Forza.  Its completely unrealistic, and puts anybody who wants to drive with RWD on the backfoot in every single race they drive.  I like having to overtake cars, but I dont like being disadvantaged in every single race I drive.  Its BS. 

 And the R class cars simply handle too good.  I swear that some A-class cars feel as hooked up as some LMP1 cars do in real life.  The steering feels way too light, the turning feels way too unobstructed, and the exits of corners are not a matter of patience like they should be. 

Really, as a genuine racing fan, who enjoys everything from ALMS to F1, from Grand-Am to IndyCar, from F3 to World Series By Renault, I cant stand how unbalanced the racing really is.  Its based off a good physics system, but its completely unbalanced. 

I'm getting sick of playing Forza 2 online because its not about skill behind the wheel as much as it should be. 

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"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough"

-Mario Andretti

Seanspeed:

I know that developing a racing game isn't easy, and I dont expect a console racer to ever reach real 'sim' quality, but for what Forza promises, it seems it delivers very little in terms of real racing satisfaction. 

Simply put, people who drive with AWD, ABS, and TCS should not be able to dominate.  In reality, thats not how racing is.  Sure, its fun to allow all different types of cars to race with each other, but the way it works just doesn't seem realistic.  AWD cars do not pull away from the startlight in real life like they do in Forza.  Its completely unrealistic, and puts anybody who wants to drive with RWD on the backfoot in every single race they drive.  I like having to overtake cars, but I dont like being disadvantaged in every single race I drive.  Its BS. 

 And the R class cars simply handle too good.  I swear that some A-class cars feel as hooked up as some LMP1 cars do in real life.  The steering feels way too light, the turning feels way too unobstructed, and the exits of corners are not a matter of patience like they should be. 

Really, as a genuine racing fan, who enjoys everything from ALMS to F1, from Grand-Am to IndyCar, from F3 to World Series By Renault, I cant stand how unbalanced the racing really is.  Its based off a good physics system, but its completely unbalanced. 

I'm getting sick of playing Forza 2 online because its not about skill behind the wheel as much as it should be. 

AHHH NOW I REMEMBER THE REASON WHY I STARTED DRIFTING!

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[Mod edit: Sig size exceeds forum limits, 480x115 pixels max - D]

They have to make a game balanced enough to entertain a large audience, not just the select few who prefer "A Real Racing Experience".  If you are looking for true simulators then there are plenty of PC games.  Turn 10 is just simply trying to please as many people as possible with a game that can be as balanced as it can be, but with the most realism possible.

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PROUD V.I.P of The FM.net Community

"""Official FM.net Ambassador to Massachusetts"""

You also have to keep in mind that if you get to realistic, it gets too complex for a large majority of gamers. As much as I would like it to be like driving a real race, I can honestly say that to pull that off, we would need much better systems and definitely better controls. There's only so much you can do without actually being in a car and feeling what its doing and having all of your controls easy to use and access.  I've done various forms of real racing over the years and am an NHRA certified driver and although some stuff is not realistic, I still like playing the game. If you want realism, get in a car and drive...

while I will agree it is a tad too easy on the driver at times (more so in very light FF's then anything else I feel) I don't think its by as huge a margin as your making it out to be. Also from what I read and watch on TV LeMans cars are that grippy but the difference comes with the driver and the track, us gamers are sitting in our rooms just relaxing but in real life theirs so many factors you cant just replicate (or rather its just not cost effective) so you will never get a true sim feel with such things as cross winds and random crap on the track.

and sadly I feel we might have hit the limit in some areas as Turn 10 have to say close to what their licenceing agreements will let them get away with

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Seanspeed:

I know that developing a racing game isn't easy, and I dont expect a console racer to ever reach real 'sim' quality, but for what Forza promises, it seems it delivers very little in terms of real racing satisfaction. 

Simply put, people who drive with AWD, ABS, and TCS should not be able to dominate.  In reality, thats not how racing is.  Sure, its fun to allow all different types of cars to race with each other, but the way it works just doesn't seem realistic.  AWD cars do not pull away from the startlight in real life like they do in Forza.  Its completely unrealistic, and puts anybody who wants to drive with RWD on the backfoot in every single race they drive.  I like having to overtake cars, but I dont like being disadvantaged in every single race I drive.  Its BS. 

 And the R class cars simply handle too good.  I swear that some A-class cars feel as hooked up as some LMP1 cars do in real life.  The steering feels way too light, the turning feels way too unobstructed, and the exits of corners are not a matter of patience like they should be. 

Really, as a genuine racing fan, who enjoys everything from ALMS to F1, from Grand-Am to IndyCar, from F3 to World Series By Renault, I cant stand how unbalanced the racing really is.  Its based off a good physics system, but its completely unbalanced. 

I'm getting sick of playing Forza 2 online because its not about skill behind the wheel as much as it should be. 

 

 

Only 4 weeks to go and your problems should be over, once we get RACE Pro in our hands the real racing enthusiasts shoud have the best of any console sim racing experiences out there, and a great mix of WTCC, GT, F3000 and loads of other great evenly matched cars to race. 

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View my Youtube channel for reviews of the Fanatec Porsche Wheel Turbo S:

http://www.youtube.com/user/UKOGjonboy

I can certainly see where the OP is coming from. I would love to see the next installment in the Forza series have a wider gap between 'arcade' gameplay and 'simulation' gameplay.

There are a lot of us who have pointed out shortcomings with certain aspects of the 'realism' in the game but, I think that there is room in game of this type to continue to appeal to a broad audience by allowing its players to have the choice of easily accessible fun or challenging realism through different game modes, assists and other selectable 'features'.

If the simulation end of the game were to be more realitic, people could choose for themselves how much they wanted to mute that reality for the sake of fun but, you can't take it out if it isn't in there to begin with and that has proved to be an annoyance for the more serious crowd, myself included. IMO, that dedicated group is the one who gives a title like this legs and continues to keep the game relevant a year and a half after release so, as more realistic games become available ( RacePro ), T10 may need to try and accommodate those of us who look for a more realistic experience if they don't want to lose significant 'marketshare'.

As far as the whole AWD thing goes, I share your frustration but, there is a basis in reality. Did you ever watch the SPEED GT /Touring car series'?  Man, those Audis would out-launch the Porsches and BMWs every time thanks to that 4-wheel motivation. The other cars had there own strengths so, in the end it all equalled out ( thanks in part to penalty weight and HP restrictions ). With Forza, most races are just too short to allow those strengths and weaknesses to play themselves out.

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"Moctane" - ( Forza addict )

Seanspeed:

I know that developing a racing game isn't easy, and I dont expect a console racer to ever reach real 'sim' quality, but for what Forza promises, it seems it delivers very little in terms of real racing satisfaction. 

Simply put, people who drive with AWD, ABS, and TCS should not be able to dominate.  In reality, thats not how racing is.  Sure, its fun to allow all different types of cars to race with each other, but the way it works just doesn't seem realistic.  AWD cars do not pull away from the startlight in real life like they do in Forza.  Its completely unrealistic, and puts anybody who wants to drive with RWD on the backfoot in every single race they drive.  I like having to overtake cars, but I dont like being disadvantaged in every single race I drive.  Its BS. 

 And the R class cars simply handle too good.  I swear that some A-class cars feel as hooked up as some LMP1 cars do in real life.  The steering feels way too light, the turning feels way too unobstructed, and the exits of corners are not a matter of patience like they should be. 

Really, as a genuine racing fan, who enjoys everything from ALMS to F1, from Grand-Am to IndyCar, from F3 to World Series By Renault, I cant stand how unbalanced the racing really is.  Its based off a good physics system, but its completely unbalanced. 

I'm getting sick of playing Forza 2 online because its not about skill behind the wheel as much as it should be. 

 Why dont you just set the room to RWD only and be happy. You cant expect a RWD car to launch as fast as an AWD. So if you cant keep up just lock the room to RWD.

 As far as the assists, My take on it is...... its a fugging GAME. I'm breaking and accelerating with my index fingers on triggers. ABS or not, it doesnt make it any more "Sim" to me. Its not like I can feel what the breaks are doing like I would in real life. Its a game. Drive how you want.

 I'm sure people dont agree tho and It'll probably start a huge argument like all the other assist threads. Have fun.

 

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AMG PANAMA:

Seanspeed:

I know that developing a racing game isn't easy, and I dont expect a console racer to ever reach real 'sim' quality, but for what Forza promises, it seems it delivers very little in terms of real racing satisfaction. 

Simply put, people who drive with AWD, ABS, and TCS should not be able to dominate.  In reality, thats not how racing is.  Sure, its fun to allow all different types of cars to race with each other, but the way it works just doesn't seem realistic.  AWD cars do not pull away from the startlight in real life like they do in Forza.  Its completely unrealistic, and puts anybody who wants to drive with RWD on the backfoot in every single race they drive.  I like having to overtake cars, but I dont like being disadvantaged in every single race I drive.  Its BS. 

 And the R class cars simply handle too good.  I swear that some A-class cars feel as hooked up as some LMP1 cars do in real life.  The steering feels way too light, the turning feels way too unobstructed, and the exits of corners are not a matter of patience like they should be. 

Really, as a genuine racing fan, who enjoys everything from ALMS to F1, from Grand-Am to IndyCar, from F3 to World Series By Renault, I cant stand how unbalanced the racing really is.  Its based off a good physics system, but its completely unbalanced. 

I'm getting sick of playing Forza 2 online because its not about skill behind the wheel as much as it should be. 

 Why dont you just set the room to RWD only and be happy. You cant expect a RWD car to launch as fast as an AWD. So if you cant keep up just lock the room to RWD.

 As far as the assists, My take on it is...... its a fugging GAME. I'm breaking and accelerating with my index fingers on triggers. ABS or not, it doesnt make it any more "Sim" to me. Its not like I can feel what the breaks are doing like I would in real life. Its a game. Drive how you want.

 I'm sure people dont agree tho and It'll probably start a huge argument like all the other assist threads. Have fun.

 

+1,000,000

I agree with you %100 man.  Some people take gaming wayyy too serious.  Im an all assist driver (minus line), and if that makes me a horrible driver or that much less of a "gamer", then so be it, i dont care what people think.  Im here to enjoy a fabulous game and have fun, not worry what people have to say about my skill.  The game was intended to provide a sence of enjoyability and fantasy, not a full time job lol.

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PROUD V.I.P of The FM.net Community

"""Official FM.net Ambassador to Massachusetts"""

Dont get me wrong, people that drive with no assists get all the props from me, because it takes a lot more skill in the game. I have a lot of respect for them. IF they can still win and get good times.

 

But if you have no assists and drive like crap, then you should probably stop crying and turn them back on because you obviously still need them. LOL

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The thing with realism is that, believe it or not, some people (myself included) like the challenge and actually consider it to be a lot of Fun. Making sure that the braking, the line, the speed is all right or making clean overtakes, etc, is what keeps us in the game. It’s not that we are super serious about it; it’s just what we like about a racing simulation/game.

What would be good is just more options so people can setup the game to their liking. Like Moctane said if the realism is there you can remove/deactivate stuff to make it easier, but the opposite is not possible. Most of the Hardcores (which like than name says represents the core users) found something they like in Forza and just want more (tuners more tuning parts and settings, painters more flexibility, collectors more cars and racers more realism, etc…)

As for Assists Vs No Assists, it’s another story, but I can understand why some can complain. It’s not that we don’t like it; it’s just that it can be a little unbalanced. For example racing without ABS against someone using it, you will “Always” need to brake hard and to the limit because he can; the difference is if you miss it by just a little bit he’ll probably pass. As for the scoreboards, I don’t really care but it nice to compare to others that race in the same conditions (the filter on the website is nice).

Finally, for those that think “well.... it’s your choice deal with it”; image playing a shooter where you need to aim precisely against someone that will hit you as long as you’re on his screen; might be a little annoying; ……………… but it’s nothing, it’s just to help him aim better.

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other gamertag: NightWarr