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tires: camber and toe tuning

Last post 08-07-2008, 5:45 PM by benney d. 5 replies.
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  •  08-06-2008, 9:34 PM 1798965

    tires: camber and toe tuning

    Im tuning my Fairlady Z to Mugello short track, and have tweaked the camber and toe so that I have pretty consistent temps from inside to out on the left side (which is the outside of most turns there).  But the right side has almost 20 degrees variation, with the inside hot.  This is on both front and rear axles.  Any ideas to help me correct this?
    thanks, there's a lot of expert stuff in this forum, and I'm finding out that Forza2 allows you go as deep as you want to go into sim racing.Geeked [8-|]


  •  08-07-2008, 1:33 AM 1799661 in reply to 1798965

    Re: tires: camber and toe tuning

    That is how it works in the world of camber. The car is going to lean towards the outside of the turn, and with the camber set the way that you have, the outside are going to be more perpendicular to the road during that lean. Fortunately, that's a good thing: the two tires you need to maximize the grip on (the two outside tires) are getting all the help from those camber settings. The two inside tires don't get any help, but they're not doing all of the hardest work at that moment.

    Now, since you're doing more right turns than lefts, the left-side tires are to to reflect your camber settings more accurately than the rights. Take heart, though: during one of those occassional left turns, your right-side tires will be cambered correctly as the car leans right. They just don't do it often enough to show the temps evening out.

    It's a little different from the world of American oval racing, where you'd independently adjust all four wheels to bias the left-hand turn.

  •  08-07-2008, 5:27 AM 1799960 in reply to 1799661

    Re: tires: camber and toe tuning

    thanks

    then the run laps->telemetry->tweak->repeat as necessary formula is working.  now for the other settings...

    This is my first run at really fine tuning a car, and even though it seems to be very time costly, it appeals to my geeky nature. 

    Do you have a routine that sets the tuning points in a definite sequence?  i just picked camber and toe to start with because i was reading a post that made the principles semi clear.

     



  •  08-07-2008, 8:21 AM 1800197 in reply to 1799661

    Re: tires: camber and toe tuning

    i'm just starting to properly figure this out at the moment and i completely agree with what you have said there dashingleper - which means i must be getting somewhere! lol

    am i right it thinking that now if you were to give less castor it might not give perfect temps for the inside wheels, it would certainly help matters?

    my understanding is that by doing this the front wheels will not tilt quite so much into the direction of the turn which although may be detremental to the inside front tyres it would help the outside tyres a bit?

    i may well be (and am probably) wrong - just trying to get my head round castor Tongue Tied [:S]

    ben



    GT: benney d
  •  08-07-2008, 11:18 AM 1800704 in reply to 1800197

    Re: tires: camber and toe tuning

    Caster will affect your dynamic camber in proportion to how far you turn the steering wheel. One front tire will gain camber, and the other tire will lose camber the further you turn the wheel. So this is an ideal adjustment to consider when one tire has a good temperature profile and the other does not.

    A great way to analyze this is to watch your dynamic camber on your car while it is parked and you turn the wheel back and forth.

    That doesn't do any good for your back tires however, and may not be enough for your fronts. The next step would be to increase your ARB stiffness on the affected axle. That's the whole purpose of your ARB - to reduce roll, and therefore reduce the magnitude of dynamic camber changes. The affect on oversteer/understeer is more of a side-affect, although one that can be very useful.

    Stiffening your ARB is a big trade-off, however, as it does one good thing and one bad thing. We already talked about the good - maintaining camber. The bad thing that stiffening your ARB does is increase lateral load transfer. This takes vertical load off of your inside tire and puts it on the outside tire. This reduces the tractive capacity of the inside tire and increases that of the outside tire, but reduces the tractive capacity of the pair overall.

    Lap times will tell you if the trade-off is worth it.

    Hope that helps.



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  •  08-07-2008, 5:45 PM 1802248 in reply to 1800704

    Re: tires: camber and toe tuning

    wow - barthanatos you certainly seem to know what you're on about! that made for a very interesting read - thanks for sharing that with us.

    ben



    GT: benney d
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