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Anyone know if the car packs will ever be free?  I really want that M3 however have no microsoft points..

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Porbably not. The loose money making the DLC anyways.The most they will give you is a free car, or three (the nissan car pack).

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Gone from Forza for a while, too busy with battlefield. And a memo to all my friends, i will not be able to play during mid-day, because i will be going to boxing practice again.

I constantly hear that Turn 10 already loses money making car packs, and I highly doubt that. Does anyone ever have proof of this so called money loss? I would love to see the Turn 10 finances to see how much they make off of DLC. Why would they make DLC if they even make money??? There's no way they would do that. It's ridiculous to think that a company would intentionally invest in downloadable content just to lose money. This is ust my 2 cents and if someone can actually prove Turn 10 loses money on DLC, then I will mail you 5 dollars!!!!

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ziffer I visited their studio and have a really good idea of the number of man hours that goes into producing just 1 car.  The cost of paying the employee alone probably means they lose money.  On top of that I believe they typically pay a license agreement to even get the car in the first place.

A Halo map can be done very easily as evidenced by the forge.  I would say 1 Forza car is probably 10 Halo maps as far as time goes and even that number is probably too low.  You get 13 cars in a car pack and you do the math on the amount of time that goes into that type of content.

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I know. The Halo map  arguement is as common as the phrase "they lose money".  A halo map in the forge isn't really the same as a DLC map though. So I dont know how well that arguement works. What company invests in a guarunteed loss of money??? Plus how many people download these packs. Lets say if 5000 people downloaded September Pack, December Pack, and March Pack, then thats 15000 sales made. I forget exactly how much each pack costs, but for some reason, it seems like with as much sales as they make of the packs, that profit is definitely being made. Once my Xbox is back on Tuesday, Im going to look into this a lot more.

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ziffer657:

I know. The Halo map  arguement is as common as the phrase "they lose money".  A halo map in the forge isn't really the same as a DLC map though. So I dont know how well that arguement works. What company invests in a guarunteed loss of money??? Plus how many people download these packs. Lets say if 5000 people downloaded September Pack, December Pack, and March Pack, then thats 15000 sales made. I forget exactly how much each pack costs, but for some reason, it seems like with as much sales as they make of the packs, that profit is definitely being made. Once my Xbox is back on Tuesday, Im going to look into this a lot more.

agreed...

loss off money is pure sepculation till proven... if a franchise was losing money it would close down..... as DLC was made they clearly have money to pay there staff and have clearly made here money back on the further released DLC.....

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core concepts owner,no sht customs graphic designer

agreed...

loss off money is pure sepculation till proven... if a franchise was losing money it would close down..... as DLC was made they clearly have money to pay there staff and have clearly made here money back on the further released DLC.....

THANK YOU! I have finally found someone else who thinks that this intentional loss of money is a big hoax!

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It takes 1 designer 4-6 weeks to do 1 car plus license agreement.  You add 13 cars and that is 78 weeks of labor.  This was reported in an article way back when the first DLC pack came out.  You do the math... that much labor is far more than $15,000 and that's just labor.

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ncasolo:

It takes 1 designer 4-6 weeks to do 1 car plus license agreement.  You add 13 cars and that is 78 weeks of labor.  This was reported in an article way back when the first DLC pack came out.  You do the math... that much labor is far more than $15,000 and that's just labor.

imo for that amount it should be done in half the time........
and again SPECULATION on ur part...unless u do the modeling and pay the saleries.........

longest thing is prob license agreements.. which is why the delay between packs......

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core concepts owner,no sht customs graphic designer

The halo maps are much closer to what it takes to make a track, not a car.  Seems to me that Test Drive released a car pack every month, and they never claimed to lose money.  If the DLC had been released earlier, and with more regularity, they would have sold more.  There are over 1 million people who own Forza 2.  5000 people is only .005 percent of those.  I find it hard to believe that only that many people bought the DLC.......

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If by speculation you mean quoting Dan Greenwalt and asking some questions of the designers while I was at Turn 10 than yes that is speculation.

The number of downloads for each car pack though... that I have no idea.  I was just running with the number from the previous poster.

factory I would be curious as to the number of polygons in a car from TDU and Forza.  I don't know if there is or isn't a difference, but if I was a betting man I would bet the difference is significant.

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Plus liscensing can be done in bulk. Hence why we probably see so many Audis in DLC. Audi sells rights to a chunk of cars for a certain price.  And I will do the math, Tuesday, once I can see the statistics on how many times each DLC has been downloaded approximately. Already using estimates, I can almost prove they make a profit. I just need to organize my thoughts a little better visually, otherwise it looks like chicken scratch as oopposed to an economic analysis of the DLC.

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Dang a lot of posts happened while I was writing my last post. Any chance, Solo, you could ask Dan Greenwalt if they make a profit off the DLC? (not making fun, serious question). I'd really be interested in what Turn 10 has to say as they will probably be the only ones who know if they are making a profit.

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ncasolo:

If by speculation you mean quoting Dan Greenwalt and asking some questions of the designers while I was at Turn 10 than yes that is speculation.

The number of downloads for each car pack though... that I have no idea.  I was just running with the number from the previous poster.

factory I would be curious as to the number of polygons in a car from TDU and Forza.  I don't know if there is or isn't a difference, but if I was a betting man I would bet the difference is significant.

lol quoting dan greenwalt..< that made me laugh.. (making sound like some histoical figure with an important message) the fact ur biased towards T10 is clouding ur judgements(i think ur trying to hard to get a spot at t10)... forza's graphics arnt that great.......

i love forza.. im on 4th disc lmao and i re orderd fora 1.....
so im not having a dig at forza.. or u for that natter..

im just restating that NO1 makes more stuff that theyd LOSE money on.....its pure nonsence..and from a buisness sence it would look bad for future works...ppl hate loosing money...

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core concepts owner,no sht customs graphic designer

ncasolo:

I would say 1 Forza car is probably 10 Halo maps as far as time goes and even that number is probably too low.

I agree with you for the most part, but Bungie has many more designers then T10 does, and if it takes bungie bungie 2.5 months to make 3 maps, how is it possible that T10 could make 10 cars in the september car pack within 4 months from release date.  Not to mention the peugeot race car and the 3 nissans before that.  (I guarantee that Bungie makes money off of DLC, so they are working as fast as possible)

So for your statistic to be correct, T10 would need 30 designers dedicated to DLC for every 1 designer that bungie has.  Somehow I think you were exagerating.

I have no doubt that T10 looses money as they say, just that cars are as complicated as you say they are (or halo maps are as simple as you say)

Someone please go on your 360 and look at the time trial scoreboard for the Motegi courses. Find the greatest total number on the scoreboard and let me know what it is!!!! Please, its the last piece of data I need, and I really dont want to wait till Tuesday anymore.

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23,976 for Motegi East.

28,428 on the Motegi Oval

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Ok so 28000 DLC downloads for the Motegi packs. A DLC pack is how much 400 MS Points? which is about $4.50 American??? Correct me if Im worng on this please!!! 28000 times 4.5 = $126000 in revenues at least from this DLC pack. Now if average DLC pack creation time = 2600 hours of labor (assuming 5 weeks per car times 40 hours per week times 13 cars per pack). Again this is all approximations based on the data, available to public. This means they could pay employees 48.5 dollars per hour (assuming no licensing fees). So lets say a Turn 10 worker makes 25 bucks an hour. That means Turn 10 has 61 thousand dollars left over for licensing vehicles!!! EASILY ENOUGH! This is just based off the assumption that all DLC packs take on average the same amount of time to create. Based on these numbers, I think Turn 10 makes a profit.

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ziffer657:

Ok so 28000 DLC downloads for the Motegi packs. A DLC pack is how much 400 MS Points? which is about $4.50 American??? Correct me if Im worng on this please!!! 28000 times 4.5 = $126000 in revenues at least from this DLC pack. Now if average DLC pack creation time = 2600 hours of labor (assuming 5 weeks per car times 40 hours per week times 13 cars per pack). Again this is all approximations based on the data, available to public. This means they could pay employees 48.5 dollars per hour (assuming no licensing fees). So lets say a Turn 10 worker makes 25 bucks an hour. That means Turn 10 has 61 thousand dollars left over for licensing vehicles!!! EASILY ENOUGH! This is just based off the assumption that all DLC packs take on average the same amount of time to create. Based on these numbers, I think Turn 10 makes a profit.

seeeee we told u so lol..... was obv they were making money.

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core concepts owner,no sht customs graphic designer

I doubt we will ever know but I would be curious to see how many of these DLC packs were actually ready for the release but left out so T10 can make some more money later on. Instead of releasing 350 cars they only release 330 and then release the other 20 later on as DLC so that people have to pay more for them.

 

 

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