Forzamotorsport.net Forums

ToolerThanTool:

Hey Big_o_xxx Thanks for the kudos. It’s indeed a sad state when all we have left to believe in is spin control. Your statements, and the passion in which they are conveyed, show just how much the moments we take from our daily lives to just push our ass back in the cushion, and burn some rubber is important to staying level in a which end is up world. Forza 2 is one of those rare doors you can walk through, and just leave all the rest of the crap behind. BUT, then the crap just followed some of us right on in. Like you, and every other fuel blooded race sim junkie, I dug the hell out of this game. I’d finished all the tracks, won all the trophy’s, broke my cherry at level fifty, and was in the process of putting my stable together so I could go online and push it all to the edge. BUT, then the crap just followed some of us right on in. Trouble is we forget who’s supplying us with our fix here. Because we’re too wrapped up in finding our groove, and then getting’ it on. We forget that Microsoft and Turn 10 are big business, and what does big business want- no, it’s not money. Big business wants control. Because with control comes power. The power to take whatever they want, how and when they want, knowing there’s not a damn thing little nobodies like you and me can do about it. Sad little world we’re building here. Bottom line- Until it’s in their (Microsoft, and Turn 10) best interest to put an end to this whole crash and burn fiasco they’re running with here, if it ever is, nothing’s going to change. We’ll all just have to mossy on over to Sony land and fall in love with GT5 I guess, and hope she treats us a little better than this *** did. Because if anybody thinks they’re going to get any real answers out of anybody on the inside looking out, go rent The Insider and watch how it all works out for Russell Crow.

+10 Tooler, You hit the nail on the head.  M
M$ still refuses to admit that the hardware issues have affected the majority of consumers and not the 2-3% they claim.
The three year warranty being put into effect was nothing more tham them trying to dodge a class action suit and shows no benevelolence on thier part.
Great analogy to the "Insider"
These shills aren't gonna dare to speak out or speak up.
They like the gravy train they're riding.

The Man:

haha I played a couple nights ago for 4 hours straight with NO snags or freezing issues. Can you give me an answer to why it didnt freeze? NO Can you honestly say the paint shop doesnt work. NO Why act like a Jerk? Do you really need the bad rep? You honestly need to GROW up and if you have some EVIDENCE or CLEAR CUT facts to say. Say it to me nicely without the CRAP (scumbag.....). If you prove me wrong, FINE, THATS COOL. I wont take it personally. You learn something new everyday. But if you wanna come on here and insult me FOR NO reason and try to make me look like a fool. Shove it.

WTF are you talking about??

YOu can come in her and laugh at other users misfortune and make them look like a fool and I can't throw it back at you??

Whatever!

Just because you don't have issues and we don't doesn't mean you're right and we;re wrong.

You laughed at that kid and told him he didn't know what he was talking about. (Which implies you think he's an idiot.)
Who's acting like a jerk?
Are you saying that's o.k. for you to do it an not o.k. for me to do it??
What kind of *** is that??

At least I'm sticking up for the little brother.

If you're gonna give, you'd better learn to recieve.
I believe I have a reason for insulting you and I WILL shove it.  Right up your A--!
Scumbag!
You could've followed your own advice and been nice to him first, hypocrite.

I can honestly say for a fact that the these things don't work for me.
(What, do you think I'm imagining all this??)

And just because your not having issues now, it doesn't mean you won't suffer eventually either.
And if and when you do, you'll be the one getting laughed at even harder.

Show a little solidarity or take your elitist mentality and get bent.
People all over are having issues with this title.
You can act like you're special 'cause you don't have them, but it would be nice if  you didn't laugh at us and act like a fool or a jerk yourself.
(And when I see you dissing folks and treating them like they're stupid for having a legitimate complaint, I'll call you out for it every time.)

I care less about whatever reputation I might earn here for myself.

I'm only looking for comments from Turn 10 in regards to a refund.

PLEASE, can someone from turn 10 respond for a change??

You know, I would love to say "screw this and leave, but I'm sure that's what you guys want.
I'm  not gong towalk out with my tail between my legs and instead continue to harrass this thread until I get compensated for this defective product.

It's not my fault these things don't work.
Until this gets resolved, I will be the thumb in your eye, turn 10.

Skate Zilla:

I'd like to remind you that I never said there isnt any issues, I Personally had a lock up or two while painting,

I'm just saying NO company can fix all the bugs at the same time, others are easier to debug and fix that others, some bugs may be small but require a huge re-write if its something used by all aspects of the game.

Didnt it take Bungie like 2 years to Fix Halo 2's "Hacking"?

There you go talking in circles again.
First hardware, then then design catalog, then harddrive, now you finally admit the game has bugs.

I'm getting so fed up with this.
Please go fetch turn 10 and tell them to give me my money back.

After experiencing every single one of the Multitude of problems this game has, I just can't play it any more.
(Still banned form the AH by the way.)

I tried to paint a car tonight and just didn't have the heart for it.
My love affair with forza is officially over.

The Man:

hahah you have NO IDEA what your talking about. You can have 100 cars with tunes and parts all over them. Its when you put these MASSIVE paints jobs with 700 layers each on them. thats ALLOT of data to crunch.

I don't think you understood me.  Having 100 cars in my garage (or whatever the limit is) isn't enough. If you buy every car in the game, you only have about 20 slots left over for "dupes" (ie, you want to have the same car in different classes at once).  That's just nowhere near enough.  And now Turn 10 tells us to lower the limit further?

I've had my garage crash a few times, NONE of my cars have vinyls more complex than simply writing "TRACKPEDIA" on the sides and hood.

---

http://www.trackpedia.com

2006 S60R 6M, Sonic Blue

Ahh I get it, but after you have gotten the achievement. why keep ALL of those cars. Most of them you will never drive.

But whatever, I see what your point is and i admit it does REALLY suck when this happens. But there are ways like pressing 'X' and searching for cars that way. I know its not the most convenient, but it does save you ALLOT of time.

Nothing is perfect, we just ALL have to live with it. Im sure TURN 10 knows of ALL these issues. But as SKATEZILLA said, one small patch just is not going to make all of your problems go away. So aslong as TURN 10 knows about the problem. Why is this conversation even still going.

---

Remember- Drive it, like you stole it.

It seems you don't get the point here. Whether or not it can be fixed, it would be nice to see Turn 10 give a **** and atleast acknowledge the problem exists.

Also, Skatezilla, what the hell does Halo 2 have to do with anything? I mean, sure it might have taken 2 years to fix, but that doesn't make it okay to do it all over. Besides, that was the original Xbox, plus it was an online bug. In this case we have a top of the line console that can easily download updates and take care of itself. A good beginning would be to acknowledge the problem exists for a large number of people and give us a heads-up on what's being done to fix it. I don't see the point of this hush-hush business.

Hey, I have an idea.

Because all this back and forth discussion board mumbo jumbo equals exactly- zero. The problem exists, no it doesn’t. Yes it does, uhn uha no it don’t. Back and forth, back and forth it goes. Going absolutely nowhere. As the issue just keeps circling the drain in ever smaller, and smaller circles.

I say it’s time to call this hand, and get all the cards on the table.

Let’s see who’s bluffing, and who’s not.

Hey Mod’s, Turn 10, or whoever. Do a recall. Pick a handful of the more outspoken complainers and buy back their game AND their console for market value. Then test them. Match disc and console, and test them. Actually sit down and see if the damn thing works or not. I mean come on, you guys made how many millions off this??? How cheep can you be? Come on, test em’. Call us a liar right here on the forums, or stand up like men who think there is more to being a man than how much cush you have in the bank. Just stand up and tell the truth. That’s all, just the truth. Because somebody’s full of it here, and this endless finger pointing is getting us absolutely nowhere.

Hell, this is something you should have done in the very beginning. But then EVERYBODY would have wanted us to buy back their POS’s, you say. No, no, your not getting off that easy. Post a forum. Let everyone who’s signed up to receive emails vote on who’s been the biggest pain in the *** die-hard’s about this. Then it’s on us, and you’re off the hook.

But you won’t, will you? Because you know exactly what’s going here, don’t you? People are buying more discs in the hope they’ll get one that works, and the poor unsuspecting consumers that are first time buyers probably haven’t even heard about this whole up yours freeze frame BS yet. So they just pick up their copy anyway. Because the bean counters say it’s not only increased sales for you (Turn 10), but for Microsoft as well, when people actually go out and buy new consoles in the hope they can get back in the Forza 2 divers seat. Because yes, this game is as addictive as they get. That’s why you’re really keeping this thing as contained as possible. Why your just letting the die-hard’s rant, and why you’ve given them some politically correct passive aggressive Mod’s to vent at, isn’t it? Keep your friends close, but enemy’s closer.

If I’m wrong, tell me. I’m right here. I’ll stand up to it.

Anyway, there you have it. Stand up, or slink away laughing all the way to the bank. But know this, monetary vouchers aren’t the only checks we get to cash in this life, and if you don’t know what I’m talking about, you’ve probably never earned one. Let alone cashed it.

I see turn 10 are really concerned about this issue (!)NOT.
They have had there money and done a runner, i erge everyone in the uk to contact tradeing standards.  http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/ 
They might do something.
I have had my xbox360 for about 5 months and everything fine,
used everyday for playing games and watching dvds.
Since playing forza 2 i constantly having problems with my xbox not only with forza but with my other games.  The white screen error message<disc faulty>
The dash board error<clean with a cloth>
And now the disc freezing while playing.......nearly throw my xbox out the window last night....
Worst still i have lost my purchase recipt for my xbox 360.
I dont know what to do.......help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Man:

Ahh I get it, but after you have gotten the achievement. why keep ALL of those cars. Most of them you will never drive.

Actually I do.  I drive all cars, all classes.  All tracks too.  Sticking to one class (or worse, one car in one class) is incredibly boring.

---

http://www.trackpedia.com

2006 S60R 6M, Sonic Blue

and i thought Nascar 08 was bad for freeezing.....not compared to forza lmao the music doesnt even play any more idc though cuz the music wasnt good anyway

---

GT= x iLLuXioNz x

templet letter please fill in and email to turn 10

Your full postal address

Your postcode

Your telephone numbers

Today’s date

The Owner/Manager’s name (or The Manager)

Retailer’s name

Retailer’s address

Retailer’ postcode

 
Dear [owner/manager’s name or Sir/Madam]

Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended)

On [date of purchase], I bought a [insert description of what you bought, i.e. 2-seater sofa] from you for £xxx which is faulty.

The problems are: [list the faults, for instance]

1. The arm of the sofa is loose
2. Nails are sticking out at the side
3. One of the cushions has flattened.

I complained about this to you on [insert the date of your telephone call(s)].  I have heard nothing since.
I wish to reject the goods and claim a replacement/refund.

Please respond to my complaint within seven days.

Yours sincerely/faithfully
 
[Insert your name]

 

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Hi, I thought I should contribute my (very short) experience with Forza 2. I bought the game 2nd hand from someone who had only had it for a month. I've only had it since yesterday evening, so I've had it less than a day at time of writing this. The official 4 fixes to stop freezing is absolutely useless to me as I have added and downloaded NOTHING except for the latest update.

It was played on three separate occasions between 6pm and midnight last night and the following is the account of the degradation of the game.

Occasion #1 - 6pm - Played for 1 hr with split screen races with my brother. Worked fine.

Occasion #2 - 10pm - Played for less than 30 mins by my bro in arcase exhibition race mode. Worked fine.

Occasion #3 - 11pm - Played for 20 mins in career mode perfectly. Won the first race of Euro Series and then decided to check out the mods. After browsing the mods for a bit I started up track 3 in the Euro series, but this time it sat at the load screen for a very long time. The DVD drive made different noises as well. Then it brought up "disc unreadable".

Nothing new has been downloaded or added to the game at this point still.

It dumped itself out back to the dashboard, and I reentered the game. This time, after the copyright screen, it showed a "static" (lots of white interlaced lines and a few funny colours) screen instead of the Take 10 intro logo. The intro vid appeared to lag a little but i skipped it. I tried running the same career race and it again took too long to load up. This time I quit back to the dashboard myself and tried again.

I re-loaded the game, but instead of the copy right page, it showed the static again. it appeared to be very unstable, but the intro vid did load. It started to jump a bit and slow down from normal, so i skipped the intro again. I decided to try a arcade exhibition race, and this actually worked.

Due to this, I wanted to try career again, so I quit from this and tried career. My hopes of smoothness were dashed as it did the same as the 1st issue I got. A very slow load time, different noises in the DVD drive (or even lack of DVD drive spinning at all) and disc unreadable issue.

Now, I've never had issues like this with any game I've had, including GoW and Oblivion, which seem to have issues for others in other forums. What could be the cause of this? I'd say its impossible this is a "hardware" issue, or its just a huge coincidence that its happening since Forza is being played on it.

Its only had 1hr and 20 mins of gameplay time on it. Its a great game and its a huge pity this is happening. I'm very tempted to give up on it before I invest too much time and emotion into the game, and just trade it for something I know will not "coincidently" cause my 360 to get RROD.

cheers

Re: StANDY

That’s the spirit StANDY

Because the big argument around these parts seems to be that Turn 10 sold the consumer a bad disk, or palmed a bad download on them, so they’re responsible. But the truth is nobody put a gun to the consumers head, and made them buy Froza 2. Sure, we did it in good faith. But what does that really mean?

It means we put our faith in someone that they shouldn’t have.

We put our faith in big business.

But that’s the rub, isn’t it. Because as long as the consumer allows big business to lead them around by their “I need to be sated” short hairs, instead of taking control back from the marketing vampires that run our global economy. The consumer has no one to blame but themselves. Period.

Everybody’s yelling for Turn 10 to step up and take responsibility, including me. But upon some reflection, I’m now asking everyone to step up and take responsibility back onto their own shoulders. Sure, we all got the shaft on this one, but who’s really to blame. We can transfer our anger at ourselves for getting’ picked. You can lay it back at Turn 10, if you think that’s going to make you feel better. But you know it won’t. It in fact plays right into their hand. It keeps us angry, and angry people don’t organize. They nitpick, and bicker among themselves. They complain. They vent. Then they run out of steam and do nothing.

Now that all sounds a little cocksure, but think about it. The smart consumer would wait. The smart consumer wouldn’t be standing in line at midnight to get the latest “Big Game” with that glazed look in their eye. The smart consumer would sit it out until the monkey headed consumers tested the game for them. The smart consumer would search out the reviewers who aren’t in the back pocket of the gaming industry, and watch the boards for consumer feedback. Then, if a game crashed and burned in a lot of peoples living rooms like Forza 2 did, you would cross it off your list just to send big business a message- MAKE BETTER GAMES, AND DON’T RELEASE THEM TILL THEY’RE READY!

But no, we’re all to hooked on gaming for that to happen. We just want our fix. Just give us our fix! Myself of course included. But I can tell you this, the next time a Turn 10 product comes to market, it won’t find itself in my collection until several months after everyone else has had a go at it. That is if it plays without a bleep on anybody’s radar until then. Also, I did not, and I will not go out and buy a new Forza 2 disk, nor a new console in the hope of getting this game to work, and I REALLY dig this game. Because it’s like ol’ Abe Lincoln said “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.” Also, I’ll sure as hell be hitting the boards before their next launch reminding everyone what a POS Forza 2 was for allot of consumers. Because that’s all I can do.

All through history people have given up control. Passing the burden of shouldering the weight of being civically responsible on to authoritarian institutions like big business is today, and it’s always ended up coming back on some level to bite us on the ass. This freezing thing was just a nibble to be sure, but it still sat a few of us a little crooked, right? Spread a little bad juju out into the world through our frustration and anger. But then of course you have to multiply that by every back room sales tactic being forced on the consumer by big business, and every consumer who has, or is taking the shaft.

That’s a lot of bad juju, and it’s growing every day.

Now there are many possible reasons why Turn 10, and Microsoft are ignoring this “problem”. Ranging from- They don’t have a fraging clue what’s going on here, to they planned the whole thing to increase sales. To it’s all part of a global economic plan to keep the world economy stimulated by selling us junk, so we have to keep spending money to replace it. But whatever it is you can be sure of one thing, the consumer is never going to get to sit in on the star-chamber discussions that make big business run.

In a sane world, as soon as the game defect, or rather selective anomaly in this case, first appeared. Turn 10 would have reached out to the consumer, and would have began gathering all the information they could. Whereas the consumer would have responded with any and all information they were able to share. In fact, I have no doubt that the consumer would have invested a great deal of their personal time and effort into helping Turn 10 find the answers to this dilemma. In a sane world the people at Turn 10 would realize how their efforts reach out into the world as a particulate catalyst evolving the causality of all our futures. But this is not a sane world, is it?

So step up and take YOUR control back. Because that’s what big business is really taking from you- Your control. Because the minute people stop buying crap, big business will stop making it.

You decide.

Thats some insperational *** man. I mean i only got forza beacuse it came with my xbox which i got a month ago. maby 2. Discs are spinny sharp things that go very very fast. its *** irrisponsible for them to sell defected ones, if someone is killed by one now they ***.

While I do agree with you ToolerThanTool, I feel that your post is a bit cocky. Saying slogans like "But this is not a sane world, is it?", and "Step up and take YOUR control back." doesn't come off good. I agree with you, I agree for one-hundred procent, but making posts like that is just too much. You may get a few followers on this forum by posting like that, but alot of people who are complaining (not all, obviously) will be standing in line for Forza 3, maybe not at midnight, but they will plunge right into the game without having 'monkey players' test it for them.
I know I won't, especially not with Turn 10's titles. But then again, how long did it take for the problems to become public? There may have been a few hiccups here and there, but the major publicity came after that decisive download that caused a memory leak or whatever.

All I'm saying is, I agree with you fully, my 360 is having problems with Forza too. But please don't go around making philosophical posts about damaged discs. And I don't know where you got the idea that Turn 10 wants us to be angry, but I'll tell you right now that's just batshit loco. Angry people may not organize, but will decide for themselves not to buy future products from Turn 10 on the release date, or perhaps not at all. If you're claiming to be organized, or trying to be, you're falling short. So far it seems you haven't convinced anyone with a normal good-working Forza 2 and Xbox 360 not to buy future products. As organized as you might be, you're still but a small dot, a peck, a little strand of hair on the sales of Turn 10.

Just don't act all high and mighty, you're putting yourself in discredit.

Re: MeMB

First, thank you for the thought you put into your response to my post. You obviously gave it some time and contemplation, and the effort is appreciated. But as far as the reference to “cocky” goes, I feel I must take a moment to vindicate myself. I can see how it would be very easy to reach the conclusion that I’m nothing more than a hole in the wall pontiff, but this is not the case. I simply speak my mind, but I in no way think I have all the answers. Still, I will stick unflinchingly to the answers I have, until someone comes along with an argument that corrects them.

Now as far as the sane world thing goes, please don’t judge my perceptibility by the self ratifying action of endorsing your own. It’s a double negative. It cancels itself out. Just state your point of view without inflective connotations upon, or against my observations, and let any outside observer make there own informed decision based on each argument as a stand alone supposition. Just as it never even entered my head to try and claim followers on any level with my post. People see what they want to see. If they agree with my observations, then it’s a perspective they’re open to. If not, it’s one they have no wish to see because it doesn’t fit into their needs. So on that level, the level where people decide to believe, or not believe anything, well, it has nothing to do with me.

As for your statement about Forza 3, I agree. Allot of the people that even now have the crash and burn problems with Forza 2 will be waiting with baited breath for the next chance to leave it all behind, and just plug themselves into the game. Now I realize that I wasn’t very clear in, and through my analogy in the last post. I wasn’t inferring that the consumer wait on every game, Because there are some gaming studios out there that put their heart and soul into their creations. I’m just saying we need to make the distinction between the studios that are offering us their art, and the games from company’s that put their profit far above the needs of the consumer, such as Turn 10 has done in regards to this freezing issue. Which they could of course completely turn around once it is in their best interest to no longer perpetuate this crash and burn fiasco, by simply coming up with the cure. At which point they get to wear the white hats, as they apologize for the delay, and the fact that they didn’t tell us anything because they didn’t want to get our hopes up before they figured it all out. Then, just like that all the bad is forgotten. Because we’re sated again. Or they could simply be using this whole thing as a template to see just how much they can get away with? Who knows? Not you, OR me.

But this is the control we have given them. To simply do what they want, while leaving us with the bill.

Also, I never in any way inferred that I was, or am in any respect intending to be organized in opposition to Turn 10, or the gaming industry as a whole. Because quite frankly, people would only, for the most, stay involved until they personally got what they wanted from it. AND that’s my real point. That big business has got us right where they want us. It’s not that they particularly want us to be angry, but they do want us to be self motivated. They want us to wine, moan, and complain like little baby’s clamoring for their bottle. But even when we get it, we still have no control over what goes into it. All we know, or care about is that for the moment we are sated, and that’s where they win. When I say we need to take back control, I am saying that we must first realize that we are not baby’s that are dependant on big business at all. Then we send them a message that states- If you want us to drink from your cup, you better make it a vintage worth drinking. Because believe me, as long as big business can sell us red Kool-Aid with rubbing alcohol in it and call it fine wine, they will. It’s how ‘they’ sate themselves. By taking us little specks, us little strands of hair for a ride. Well, actually they’re the ones going for a ride down into the lush lands of milk and honey on the great, golden gravy train. We’re just the fuel they burn to get there. You, AND me.

Again, I’m not trying to organize anything, or influence anybody. I’m just asking, isn’t it time we organized ourselves as individuals. Because freedom, real freedom comes from standing on your own two feet no matter where the herd is headed.

It’s a Spartan thing.

Yo, guys,
I got news.

I'm so ticked off about this I made an attempt to see if I couldn't round up a few folks to help me bring these issues with this titles accross to the attention of the developers at turn 10 only to find out literally thousands of people have already organized and made the effort before me.
Also, it turns out that these issues aren't solely the result of the infamous anti-duping patch.  (That one only complicated the already known issues.)

It turns out the list of problems with this title are many and affect a larger number of people than we realized.

Media lawyers and state attorneys are already involved in some areas.
(I was told by one media laywer I talked to that the biggest action being followed is in regards to a false advertising complaint that the game was supposed to contain more tracks that it did and instead of releasing the DLC for free until they fulfil the advertised amount of content, they further try to profit by charging consumers for what they should've received in the first place.)

Seriously, as of midnight on 11/10/ 2007  27 websites, including major retailers such as
Gamestop, EB games, Circuit City, and Wal-Mart were still advertising Fora Motorsport 2 using this description:

* Master real-world tracks from around the globe. From the famously challenging Nürburgring Nordschleife track to the spectator-lined streets of Rio de Janeiro, race on meticulously designed tracks with an incredible sense of speed and realism. “Forza Motorsport 2” features more than 60 tracks carved out of 18 environments, including 13 real-world licensed circuits such as the Road America race track, Silverstone Circuit, Tsukuba Circuit and Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca. Sebring International Raceway is among four new real-world licensed circuits added to the repertoire of “Forza Motorsport 2.”

(BestBuy.com has an amended description but it still states that FM2 includes Rio as an included track.)

Every currnet FM2 owner knows this to be false.
Some retailers have already changed or downgraded this description.  Some, such as Target.com have deleted the description altoegther and discontinued selling the game online.

It's well known to the folks fighting Turn 10 on this that Race America and Rio De Janeiro are already completed and are supposed to be released ans premium DLC in the near future.

This is where Tooler's "Take the control back" POV carries weight.

How many people blindly praised T10 for releasing Motegi and swore they'd pay any price offered for it vs. how many that complained about it being overpriced??
("How stupid is the average comsumer anyways?")

Why do you think that the price for it was reduced to appease the communtiy??


In my opinion, it was most likely a test (exactly as specultated by Tooler) to see what they could get away with.
If they act benevolent and reduce the price based on our complaints it softens our dispositions towards them and builds confidence that they are in good rapor with thier customer base.
I can now see Big Buisiness tatics all over this manuver.

Had I known then what I know now, I would've argued and pushed the issue non-stop until they gave us Motegi for free as they were the ones that had avdertised 18 environments and 60 tracks being included with the retail release.

Until we have that amount of content, all further track-based DLC should be free of charge.
I was also informed that if Turn 10 releases Road Amrica or Rio as premium DLC that M$ will be slapped with a class action lawsuit based on said false advertising campaign.

(False Advertising Defined: “"Any advertising or promotion that misrepresents the nature, characteristics, qualities or geographic origin of goods, services or commercial activities" (Lanham Act, 15 U.S.C.A. § 1125(a)).”

I have also been informed that while the other issues with this title are tangible and we can be compensated for damages, the false advertising is the only real clear-cut winning option for litigation at this time. (A whole lot of testing has to take place in order to find out what the causes of the problems with this title are and that takes time and costs money.)

I would also like to remind you that this is a M$ studios title and M$ itself has DEEP pockets and lawyers are some of the most opportunistic people in the world and love free money. 
These issues will most definitely be fought as there is no real contention to the fact that M$ advertised features up until this minute that do not exist in this title.

In short, a little organization goes a long way.


I've suffered every single issue there is with this title:
Lost game save
vinyls being corrupted or massivley shifting around after they've been saved
non-stop freezing issues in all kinds of areas while playing. (on two consoles now)
lost cars in the AH
A 'bricked xbox" (3 rrod) while playing forza
A whole new issue just started popping up-- quilt-like artifacted pattern appearing on the title screen instead of the main title page.
Load times are lagging now and it sometimes takes 2-3 minutes to load the game at start-up and some tracks take longer than 5 minutes to load (if they do at all)


My most recent issue with the title that I'm fighting is this:
I've been banned from the AH for twelve days now for no reason.
(Or so I thought.  I got  message that said "this service is temporarily unailable. Either there is a problem with the server or your account has been banned.  Please visit http://forzamotorsport.net for more information.)

I finally got tired of using the forums and took the fight to turn 10 directly.
I called xbox live and got them involved and did a tremendous amount of research and got the number for the front desk at turn 10.
The operator at turn 10 would not patch me thru to anyone that was customer support related so I called back xbox live and complained.

I found out from xbl customer support that I wasn't banned from the Forza AH  at all and there are known issues with  the Forza servers
Xbox live is WELL aware of the promlem and have called me three times in three days to gather information about my console and internet connection.
(at least now I know that this affects a large number of people and M$ is finally working on this problem.)

They have also informed me that they think there was a large number of defective disks produced and advised me to return my copy to see if that fixes the problem (which I can't do as I'm beyond the 90-day period.)
I've read a post where Che Chou denys this speculation right here on this website months ago.

What really ticks me off is that I was actually advised to buy a NEW copy as I can't return the one I have.
See how this can be interpretted as compounding and inflating sales figures.  <-- again, Tooler is right on the money.

I informed xbox live support that there was no way I was wasting any more money on this title and that M$ or Turn 10 either needs to send me a replacement copy or a full refund of my purchase price.
I'm waiting another 5 days for a call from the guys at xbox live to tell me the results of my request.

(I'm also supposed to nonchalantly start a thread in the general discussion section of this board titled "Attn: ETB Kanen" to deal with the forum leader directly regarding my issuses and my issues alone.

While I'm glad I'm finally getting the necessary attention and steps are being made to reolve my problems, this leaves me with a VERY bad taste in my mouth as these issues are obviously being contained and the group is not being dealt with as a whole.  I have a good idea now that the powers that be know  EXACTLY what the issues are (well, maybe not EXACTLY, but at least they DO know there are issues) and are trying to prevent knowledge of them from being widespead in order to protect future sales.

IF all of us here on the forums were to organize and speak with one unified voice, I promise you that Turn 10 and microsoft would take greater notice of our complaints instead of leaving us in these threads to fight amongst ourselves.
You guys can do what you want, but if any are interested in joing up with the movement to get T10 to solve these issues I'd be more than happy to share the information I have with you.
Just send me a PM.
If anything, I'd strongly urge everyone to call Microsoft xbox divison or xbox live support and get yourself logged in as having troubles with this game.  Get on the list.

And lastly, I'd like to say to the developers I KNOW who are reading this:

Nice one, turn 10, for ignoring all of these problems and not dealing with us directly.

I for one have lost all consumer confidence in your products altogether.
Way to lose another lifetime customer!

Re: Big_p_xxx

Wow, and I thought I was long winded.

Right on man! You have nothing but my respect for taking the fight to Turn 10, and Microsoft’s front door. As far as to what you’ve started here, speaking for myself, send me, or just post all the info you’ve collected, and/or links to reference material.

Because maybe it is time we take this out into the web, and begin posting updates on every applicable board out there.

just say its a fault in the disk which is potentialy dangerous. They sold you dodgy *** so in a way they are responsible.

ddddan:

Occasion #3 - 11pm - Played for 20 mins in career mode perfectly. Won the first race of Euro Series and then decided to check out the mods. After browsing the mods for a bit I started up track 3 in the Euro series, but this time it sat at the load screen for a very long time. The DVD drive made different noises as well. Then it brought up "disc unreadable".

Nothing new has been downloaded or added to the game at this point still.

It dumped itself out back to the dashboard, and I reentered the game. This time, after the copyright screen, it showed a "static" (lots of white interlaced lines and a few funny colours) screen instead of the Take 10 intro logo. The intro vid appeared to lag a little but i skipped it. I tried running the same career race and it again took too long to load up. This time I quit back to the dashboard myself and tried again.

I re-loaded the game, but instead of the copy right page, it showed the static again. it appeared to be very unstable, but the intro vid did load. It started to jump a bit and slow down from normal, so i skipped the intro again. I decided to try a arcade exhibition race, and this actually worked.

Due to this, I wanted to try career again, so I quit from this and tried career. My hopes of smoothness were dashed as it did the same as the 1st issue I got. A very slow load time, different noises in the DVD drive (or even lack of DVD drive spinning at all) and disc unreadable issue.

I just wanted to confirm that my game just started doing this exact same thing 4 days ago.
Add one more issue to the list.

But mine only does this sporadically.
It happened a few times when I was loading a couple days ago and now it only happens once in a while and usually I can reboot.
(I put the game in 4-5 times a day just to see if the AH is back online.  It's not.)

I'm in the middle of composing my list of grievences for the forum leader of this board and to be sent to the desk of whoever it may concern at turn 10 studios.

My AH still doesn't work and the gameplay in carreer is degrading fast.
I still put it in just to keep testing it and the lag with loading is getting progressively worse.
It also freezes more often now.

Short of spending another $60 to find out that this title is INDEED crap I'm goinig to start a new thread for everyone to post thier list of issues and couple it with their hardware information and then forward the whole thread to M$ and Turn 10 directly.

I'll do my best to start the thread on every applicable website, but with a job, a girlfriend, and a bad COD 4 addiction developing, I'm running out of available free time and could use some help getting the message posted everywhere.
Any offers of assistance would greatly be appreciated.

(Normally, I would've just walked away from all of this by now.  I have no desire to play this further out of fear that I'll lose my profile all over again.  It just bugs me that I made this purchase intending to get a few years play out of the title and instead I got 90 days worth of play and a bricked xbox.  I just can't trade it in for $15 and noone's spending more than that for it on ebay anymore.  I feel like I'm entitled to my full $60 back and I just can't give in on this without a fight.   Sounds whack, I know, but someone's got to do something about this.  I have never experienced a title with so many different problems that affected so many users the same way in my  life.)

+1 to Big_o, these people at T10 need to have their butts kicked for this crap, im with you 100% on this, the support for this game is the worst i have ever seen!

any then they have the cheek to ask us for 600ms pts for some shite track! T10 you really do take the piss!

i will be posting about this on my website and every other forum i go on so that more people will see what T10 are like

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