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Wow guys this topic has gotten WAY out of hand............

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R.I.P. AMG Pale Rider, A Forza Racing Legend That Will Never Be Forgotten..........

GT: AMG The Wolf

Xx01CamaroZ28xX:

Wow guys this topic has gotten WAY out of hand............

 

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GT : CORN1SH

Tip :-
Drop gravel into your fuel tank so you can fill up your car for less.

LMFAO...wow, I just read through a few pages of this thread seeing that I haven't been around for a few days, and I must say that some people are just dense...

First off, I'm pretty sure anyone who has been in this community any amount of time could have predicted this thread going this way quickly...probably because it has happened NUMEROUS times before.

Secondly, as has been stated, the real problem these people have isn't with LB cars it is with the drivers capable of setting LB times.

Finally, if you just aren't that skilled yet...GO PRACTICE, FIND OTHER COMPETITIVE CARS, and most importantly SHUT YOUR MOUTH ABOUT ASSISTS/CARS/SETUPS/ETC and just accept where you stand in the world of FM2. 

I'm not an amazing driver by any means, but I can hold my own.  With that said, I get in to a room with Greek, with Sneaky, with JED, with Wolf, with Chemical, with XRay, with Mono, or with a number of different truly fast drivers and I get smoke 9 times out of 10...does that mean I force them to drive different cars if I'm hosting?...heck no 'cause THEY ARE JUST FASTER AND I ACCEPT THAT.  If I want to be at there level I know I just need more practice and to GET BETTER. 

Case in point, I know JED (sorry to use you as an example man) doesn't use assists and still owns quite a few insanely fast times, but I don't hear him on the boards crying that he would be #1 in Forza if everyone else didn't use assists LOL.  God I love some people's logic.

As I've said for quite some time now, and this stems outside of gaming...it's the LOUD MINORITY usually creates the majority of issues within any type of community.  Got to love it.

There's my two cents on this thread, and I'm done with it.  See ya on the track...and don't label my Mustang GT or Silvia S15 as LB cars in A-class just 'cause I smoke your butt with them...and yes, I have had those two cars accused of being LB cars ROFL. 

 

 

 

Oh, and I'm sure this thread will be locked by the end of the day if not sooner ;)

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Proud Member of DMR...GT: DMR Adequate
www.TeamDMR.com
Basically retired until Race Pro and the possible FM3...

R.I.P. Pale Rider

I don't use the scoreboard cars online unless 9/10 of the people in the room are using them, but I always use the F50GT in U class it's a great car to drive plus in U class if you're not in a decent car you haven't got much chance of winning- especially in a room full of F50GT's. I also don't ever use any of the Forza wings I think they make the cars look so ugly especially the hatchbacks they look like little toys with them on lol I only use a Forza rear wing on 1 of my cars and that's my S class Top Secret Supra fair enough it does make the cars more grippy and faster round corners overall, and I don't always win when I'm racing against Forzafied cars but I just like racing without them

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GT- oo F4T4L1TY oo

Manual gears
All assists off
Stock tyres full power no wings

I don't like using leaderboard cars as I feel if I won using them, it'd be the car that won and not me as a driver.

I use the following for my races:

U Class - Ferrari FXX / Porsche 911 GT1 / CCGT
S Class - Enzo Ferrari / Audi R8
A Class - Audi R8 / Ferrari F430 / Corvette C6 / Honda NSX-R
B Class - Honda Civic Type-R 07
C Class - Toyota Celica
D Class - Toyota Celica

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Game Tag: KaLi Venusian
Search on the Auction House for my cars
or check out my Flickr for my designs. (All cars are sold as locked)

To finish first, first you have to finish.

It depends, sometimes I will use them, sometimes I don't.

For example, JED, Greeksniper and I were in a room together the other day and we were all in non-leaderboard cars in B Class. They were ranging from Hyundai Tuscani (Greek) to Mini Cooper (JED) to VW Beetle (me) and we were all having a really even race. Now this kind of stuff is a lot of fun, but you can also have this same kind of close racing with leaderboard cars, but it is boring seeing the same car all over the field!

I love the whole missile car argument though because I don't particularly enjoy driving grip cars around tracks like Road America, and people *** at you when you jump in something with power. I mean come on, these tracks were built for power, people need to get over the fact that some people like to drive powerful cars which are suited for these tracks. Normally the people who *** about these cars can't drive them, so they try to limit other people's car selections because they can't be bothered to take the time to learn them.

Besides from this, I still think muscle cars are horribly over-dominant. But I enjoy them!

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Gamertag - R2P ChemicaL

Mafioso:

This game has nothing to do with fun.

Well with you here it's obviously not about intelligence.

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Wow.  I did not expect this many replies.  But, I just wanted to find a few people who find it a bit more rewarding and fun to earn wins instead of running away with them in leader board cars.  Sure, nobody can get as many wins as they could with a LB car with a non LB car, but I like the challenge.

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Ricky Ray Racing is currently recruiting new racers, painters, and tuners

The reason this topic gets so many replies, and often "nasty" replies, is due to the attitude against "Leader Board" cars (which is, in my view, quite misguided).

Just look at the way you phrased it in this post:

infineon racer:

... more rewarding and fun to earn wins instead of running away with them in leader board cars...

You are quite clearly implying that simply by using a "LB" car, one has an easy win, and has not "earned" it. That cannot be further from the truth.

In any group of cars, the "better" car has an advantage - whether one considers it a "LB" car or not. If I load up a B-650 car (which, obviously, would not be classified as a "LB" car), and everyone else in the race is running B-560 cars, I will most probably "run away" with the win.

Personally, I don't find it any more or less rewarding to win a race in any car. If I'm driving one of my 206s, and 7 other people are also driving 206s, should I feel 'less rewarded" if I win, simply because I'm driving a "LB" car???

Taking it even further... if I pull out a car with a PI rating 25 points below everyone else - and I win the race - I think I'd find it even less rewarding, since it would seem clear that I'm substantially better at the game than any of the other 7 players. I'd almost certainly jump out of that lobby, and go find a race filled with people closer to my skill level.

- Don

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GT: Don Ente



Video - Forza vs. Real World at Road Atlanta

Donald Ente:

The reason this topic gets so many replies, and often "nasty" replies, is due to the attitude against "Leader Board" cars (which is, in my view, quite misguided).

Just look at the way you phrased it in this post:

infineon racer:

... more rewarding and fun to earn wins instead of running away with them in leader board cars...

You are quite clearly implying that simply by using a "LB" car, one has an easy win, and has not "earned" it. That cannot be further from the truth.

In any group of cars, the "better" car has an advantage - whether one considers it a "LB" car or not. If I load up a B-650 car (which, obviously, would not be classified as a "LB" car), and everyone else in the race is running B-560 cars, I will most probably "run away" with the win.

Personally, I don't find it any more or less rewarding to win a race in any car. If I'm driving one of my 206s, and 7 other people are also driving 206s, should I feel 'less rewarded" if I win, simply because I'm driving a "LB" car???

Taking it even further... if I pull out a car with a PI rating 25 points below everyone else - and I win the race - I think I'd find it even less rewarding, since it would seem clear that I'm substantially better at the game than any of the other 7 players. I'd almost certainly jump out of that lobby, and go find a race filled with people closer to my skill level.

- Don

Don, I get what you are TRYING to say, but then again you are kinda being ridiculous. The MOST CELEBRATED wins in ALL of motorsport are the "David slewing Golaiath wins"

Nurburgring 1935: Nuvolari winning in his alfa vs the mercedes and auto unions
Germany 1968: JYS beating the superior lotus 49's
Spain 1996: Schumacher beating the all-conquering Williams
Donnington 1993: Senna winning in the infrior mclaren
Estoril 1985:Senna winning in the inferior Lotus. And this race SENNA HIMSELF found his most satisfying and his greatest victory.

Note: this is not an advocation for or agaiant LB cars, just a reply to that point that done made

Donald Ente:

The reason this topic gets so many replies, and often "nasty" replies, is due to the attitude against "Leader Board" cars (which is, in my view, quite misguided).

You wanna talk misguided? Ok...

Donald Ente:

You are quite clearly implying that simply by using a "LB" car, one has an easy win, and has not "earned" it. That cannot be further from the truth.

Actually, with drivers of the same level, the guy in the LB car will win 95% of the time. Driving a Saleen S7 at Maple Valley in S class is an easy win.

Donald Ente:

In any group of cars, the "better" car has an advantage - whether one considers it a "LB" car or not. If I load up a B-650 car (which, obviously, would not be classified as a "LB" car), and everyone else in the race is running B-560 cars, I will most probably "run away" with the win.

We're talking about cars with THE SAME PI here. How does what you sayd even relate to the cituation?

Donald Ente:

Personally, I don't find it any more or less rewarding to win a race in any car. If I'm driving one of my 206s, and 7 other people are also driving 206s, should I feel 'less rewarded" if I win, simply because I'm driving a "LB" car???

Nobody cares that you're driving an LB car when everybody else is obviously! Its when you're the only one in one that theres a problem.

Donald Ente:

Taking it even further... if I pull out a car with a PI rating 25 points below everyone else - and I win the race - I think I'd find it even less rewarding, since it would seem clear that I'm substantially better at the game than any of the other 7 players.

So you would feel LESS rewarded by knowing that it was only your driving skill that won you the race, not the car? Ok yeah that makes sense. No wait it doesnt.

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GT: PANAMAFIOSO TIMETRIAL: 172,523 HOTLAP: 5944 CAREER: 306,344 ////////////

further more don, races where the guy in best car wins are hardly remembered unless they strart a lap back or something like that. Anyone remeber the "amazing" drive from Schumacher in Imola 2002? or the absolutely "brilliant" drive he gave in Australia 2004?

....didn't think so. In fact, Raikonnen has said before after winning a race in the best car, in press conference saying the race was boring for him.

....I bet he was glad for the points though :)

Mafioso:

You wanna talk misguided? Ok...

Try reading my post as a continuous thought, instead of individual statements... it will make a lot more sense to you.

Actually, with drivers of the same level, the guy in the LB car will win 95% of the time. Driving a Saleen S7 at Maple Valley in S class is an easy win.

You're supporting my point - with drivers of like skills, the guy with the better car has an advantage... it has nothing to do with it being a LB car or not.

We're talking about cars with THE SAME PI here. How does what you sayd even relate to the cituation?

I don't remember anybody talking about the same PI ... everyone is talking about these vaguely-defined "LB" cars.

So you would feel LESS rewarded by knowing that it was only your driving skill that won you the race, not the car? Ok yeah that makes sense. No wait it doesnt.

Re-read my comments... if we're all driving the same car, then it is "only driving skill" that wins the race. If I'm driving a significantly lesser car, and I win, then my "skills" have out-classed the rest of the field, and so, No, I do not find that rewarding - anymore than I'd get a sense of satisfaction beating a 10-year-old in a foot-race, even if I gave him a half-lap lead.

- Don

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GT: Don Ente



Video - Forza vs. Real World at Road Atlanta

sleep3:

....didn't think so. In fact, Raikonnen has said before after winning a race in the best car, in press conference saying the race was boring for him.

Yet, you don't see Kimi leaving Ferrari for Honda do you.  You'll never see a real race car driver leave a superior car for a inferior one because they feel bad for running the best car.

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R.I.P. Pale Rider

sleep3:

further more don, races where the guy in best car wins are hardly remembered unless they strart a lap back or something like that...

Sure... Absolutely... Everyone loves "David vs. Goliath," Rooting for the "Underdog," the "Cinderella Story," etc...

However, in any sports - motor or otherwise - does anybody believe the competitors intentionally make themselves the underdog?

    "Estoril 1985: Senna winning in the inferior Lotus"

Do we think that, prior to the race, Senna said "I'm going to run an inferior Lotus, because I'll get more satisfaction if I win" ????

I don't know it for a fact, but I'd say: probably not ;)

- Don

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GT: Don Ente



Video - Forza vs. Real World at Road Atlanta

GeorgiaDawg72:

sleep3:

....didn't think so. In fact, Raikonnen has said before after winning a race in the best car, in press conference saying the race was boring for him.

Yet, you don't see Kimi leaving Ferrari for Honda do you.  You'll never see a real race car driver leave a superior car for a inferior one because they feel bad for running the best car.

dude, read my first post right before that, i wasn't arguing that point. I was replying to ANOTHER point that Don made. Please, read all then reply. Of course a driver will want the faster car. No disputing that. fagio jumped to the fastest car every season in his career. i never dispouted that. its just that saying they get the most satisfaction from winning in them is wrong. The only time that happens is if there are extraordinary cases. Like fangio in 57 in Germany.

My point was simply drivers regard their best races as those where they battle against all odds in inferior equipement to win. And its the ones that are celebrated and written about and remembered for years and years and soon in the case of Nuvolari at the Nurburgring, CENTURIES to come.

sleep3:

GeorgiaDawg72:

sleep3:

....didn't think so. In fact, Raikonnen has said before after winning a race in the best car, in press conference saying the race was boring for him.

Yet, you don't see Kimi leaving Ferrari for Honda do you.  You'll never see a real race car driver leave a superior car for a inferior one because they feel bad for running the best car.

dude, read my first post right before that, i wasn't arguing that point. I was replying to ANOTHER point that Don made. Please, read all then reply. Of course a driver will want the faster car. No disputing that. fagio jumped to the fastest car every season in his career. i never dispouted that. its just that saying they get the most satisfaction from winning in them is wrong. The only time that happens is if there are extraordinary cases. Like fangio in 57 in Germany.

My point was simply drivers regard their best races as those where they battle against all odds in inferior equipement to win. And its the ones that are celebrated and written about and remembered for years and years and soon in the case of Nuvolari at the Nurburgring, CENTURIES to come.

Dude, I wasn't attacking your point, just using yours to make another point.  Illustrating the differences between real racers and this section of the Forza community that thinks you're somehow cheating the rest of the world by running in the fastest car.

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R.I.P. Pale Rider

I certainly wouldn't call it cheating using the fastest car, but if you are a faster driver (and know it) than the others in the room and still get out that fastest car, I would call it unsporting.

It's horses for courses really, and if you enter a room with, say, a Mazda Axela, a PT Cruiser, an Eclipse, an '07 Civic, a Del Sol and a Talon, is it really in the spirit of the room to go pull out your MkII Golf?

I can't speak for anybody else, but that's my beef. Not with the cars, not with the drivers who run them when it's appropriate to use them, but with the people who will hop into a room such as that above and still pull out their "leaderboard" car, even when they are ranked higher than the rest of the room. If you really want to run that Golf, all I would ask is that you run it in a room where it is in keeping with the other entrants. If you want to stay, please use something more in keeping with the ethos of the room.

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"My mistakes are not errors, just predictions immediately proved wrong." - Murray Walker

http://www.forza-tuning.net

GT: Spiny Anteater

Sorry georgia, my humblest apologies.

As i said before when i squashed the little tit-for-tat myself and factory had, its a free country, run what you want. Even if you are the fastest guy in the room.

Also, some people, like myself, when the game FIRST came out (I picked up the game on the 2nd day of launch), just chose a car that they liked in real life or at random. It may hev happened to be a LB car, but back then it was just a car. I just so happened to have always LOVED the Elise (screw you guys, I think it looks great), therefore I used it. I still love it, but unfortunately now i have to keep it in my garage for fear of this kinda thing. I got my first win in that Elise, Still have the replay, what a win. Was hit off the track and came bck to win. Against a guy running a Ferrari. On suzuka. And cutting the last chicane......sorry, went on a tangent there.

The point is that sooner or later things balance out and even the guys that run much faster cars eventually pull out something diff cause they hear all the fun the guys are having in the back. rubbing paint, really close racing, going threee wide, and they are just on their lonesome. Has happened to me before, not in an LB car though. I had to drop down to my A750 cars so the guys in the room at A850 could keep up. That only happens when i go to random rooms though, which i hardly ever do anymore.I much rather race my friends at my same skill level

And that trueskill rank is balls. I've slain many a champion with my measly pro rating. See, I don't care about my rank, cause  i just play the game. Too many guys care so much that they refuse to have fun and will even go so far as to TURN OFF THEIR 360 when they are being beaten so they won't lose any rank. Sad really. Just have fun.

Longest post EVER, lol

sleep3:

Sorry georgia, my humblest apologies.

As i said before when i squashed the little tit-for-tat myself and factory had, its a free country, run what you want. Even if you are the fastest guy in the room.

Also, some people, like myself, when the game FIRST came out (I picked up the game on the 2nd day of launch), just chose a car that they liked in real life or at random. It may hev happened to be a LB car, but back then it was just a car. I just so happened to have always LOVED the Elise (screw you guys, I think it looks great), therefore I used it. I still love it, but unfortunately now i have to keep it in my garage for fear of this kinda thing. I got my first win in that Elise, Still have the replay, what a win. Was hit off the track and came bck to win. Against a guy running a Ferrari. On suzuka. And cutting the last chicane......sorry, went on a tangent there.

The point is that sooner or later things balance out and even the guys that run much faster cars eventually pull out something diff cause they hear all the fun the guys are having in the back. rubbing paint, really close racing, going threee wide, and they are just on their lonesome. Has happened to me before, not in an LB car though. I had to drop down to my A750 cars so the guys in the room at A850 could keep up. That only happens when i go to random rooms though, which i hardly ever do anymore.I much rather race my friends at my same skill level

And that trueskill rank is balls. I've slain many a champion with my measly pro rating. See, I don't care about my rank, cause  i just play the game. Too many guys care so much that they refuse to have fun and will even go so far as to TURN OFF THEIR 360 when they are being beaten so they won't lose any rank. Sad really. Just have fun.

Longest post EVER, lol

No apologies necessary, like I said in the other thread, I can come off as a pompous jerk on the forums simply because I tend to be to the bone blunt when I post. 

But you make a point, and it's one that really gets to the heart of this whole arguement.  You like the Lotus Elise, and you have every reason to like that car.  Dollar for dollar it's one of the best sportscars in the world.  But since others have decided that it's a evil scoreboard car, you feel obligated not to run your favorite car.  It's the same with me, different car, the CLK-GTR.  I just think it's a amazing car in every way.  Yet there are actually people who will complain about it being a scoreboard car if I bust mine out in a S class room.  So, we're left with the decision of running what we want to run or being branded as some no skill having scoreboard car driver.  It's ridiculous.

And in my opinion, it doesn't even have to be a specific car.  Some people, myself included most of the time, just want to race the fastest thing possible.  It is a racing game after all and it doesn't make one some kind of lesser person if they come into a room and want to run their fastest car for whatever the restrictions are.

Now I understand that people like to run rooms with different cars.  I do on occassion myself.  Just last night I was in a room with a number of very fast drivers all of us driving non scoreboard cars.  Granted, for the most part, what we were driving were all very finely tuned cars that actually now have been placed in the top 100 in a few different spots.  These are cars that were built for our new tuning garage and we all had a big laugh at how we couldn't drive them anymore since we built a car out of nowhere and made it a top 100 scoreboard car.

Now, with everyone running those cars I took a few races to bust out a few of my personal project cars and well, didn't fair to well with them as I'm not great at tuning yet, but was still fun to see where my car stacked up against some brand spanking new "scoreboard" cars.  Even though I was losing badly with those cars, I still wanted the faster cars in there.  Would have been the same if they were all in Mugens or Renaults or whatever.  If I'm running a non-scoreboard car I want the fast cars there so I can see how good my car really is.

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R.I.P. Pale Rider