nice tools, I'm used to do my own cooking but it seems the calculators definately point in a good direction. definately will look into this furthermore.

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Storefront Keyword (tunes): Yamadatuned
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Yo FD.  Just a suggestion, but you might want to consider having the tire width ratio of front to rear play a role in your calculations.  I've been finding it makes a huge difference.  Some cars have wider tires in the rear than the front while some have equal widths (you can determine this by going to the tire width upgrade screen and looking at the numbers at the top of the screen).  Find a car where the tire width upgrade only upgrades the front or rear tires (like the Lamborghini Countach, which definitely understeers as a result of having HUGE rear tires in relation to the fronts) and you can feel how much of a difference it makes.  This variable might explain some of the anomalies you have experienced with your calculator.

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Keep it clean

Feuerdog thanks for putting me on the list and thanks to tonka for that too. Glad that i could help people out.


FR sent

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*************GEARBOX*RETIRED***********

MunkyWorm:

Yo FD.  Just a suggestion, but you might want to consider having the tire width ratio of front to rear play a role in your calculations.  I've been finding it makes a huge difference.  Some cars have wider tires in the rear than the front while some have equal widths (you can determine this by going to the tire width upgrade screen and looking at the numbers at the top of the screen).  Find a car where the tire width upgrade only upgrades the front or rear tires (like the Lamborghini Countach, which definitely understeers as a result of having HUGE rear tires in relation to the fronts) and you can feel how much of a difference it makes.  This variable might explain some of the anomalies you have experienced with your calculator.

i think the WIDE rear tires and comparitively skinny tires may be the case with my NON speedway GT40 project (or any GT40 for that matter) (i got the highest non GT40 time on speedway last time i checked... but that's alotta scrollin down lol)... except the casee with my gt40 is that the rear tires get like POSITIVE 0.4 to 0.9 camber on... silverstone short, i believe, is where i went back and double checked to make sure. mine would oversteer cause the outer rear tire is leaning out, and that makes it harder to get on the gas early.

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CLICK THIS PIC TO FIND OUT WHY IT'S HERE...

MunkyWorm:

Yo FD.  Just a suggestion, but you might want to consider having the tire width ratio of front to rear play a role in your calculations.  I've been finding it makes a huge difference.  Some cars have wider tires in the rear than the front while some have equal widths (you can determine this by going to the tire width upgrade screen and looking at the numbers at the top of the screen).  Find a car where the tire width upgrade only upgrades the front or rear tires (like the Lamborghini Countach, which definitely understeers as a result of having HUGE rear tires in relation to the fronts) and you can feel how much of a difference it makes.  This variable might explain some of the anomalies you have experienced with your calculator.

I ran into this issue with my FM1 calculator and the APR Celica several months ago.  I spent an hour trying to come up with a simple solution for it last night too.

What we are dealing with is an inbalance in traction between the front and rear tires.  This inbalance will generally cause braking understeer, and throttle understeer.

- I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible, so while I do acknowledge the effects involved I don't think it makes that much of a difference.  At least not enough to warrant it's own calculation, but it can cause an undesireable feel.

- There are calculations and adjustments already in place to compensate for these effects.  Running a tighter rear diff., changing brake balance, and adjusting dampers, etc.

- If I did do further testing to compensate for these size differences, it would affect alot of cars.  These cars would need to be tested and the size differences would need to be measured.  This could be simplified of course, but it would still take time to find averages.  I don't want to spend too much more time testing, and there are several people around here that don't want me testing anymore either.  It would probably take me another week to sort this effect out with it's own calc.

- I'll look into it a bit further, but not too much.  I wanted to help people out a little, not make an ultimate chassis calculator.  If I gave away all the secrets of tuning, then it wouldn't be a challenge anymore and people would give trying to learn new things y'know?

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FM3 Suspension Calculator
http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/3073197.aspx

iPhone Suspension Calculator
http://forzatune.com/

Learn about Tuning at DIY RaceTuning
http://diy-racetuning.net/

Sorry guys, rough night last night, i'll get the gift cars out as soon as I get home tonight around 6pm EST.

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FM3 Suspension Calculator
http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/3073197.aspx

iPhone Suspension Calculator
http://forzatune.com/

Learn about Tuning at DIY RaceTuning
http://diy-racetuning.net/

feuerdog:

I ran into this issue with my FM1 calculator and the APR Celica several months ago.  I spent an hour trying to come up with a simple solution for it last night too.

What we are dealing with is an inbalance in traction between the front and rear tires.  This inbalance will generally cause braking understeer, and throttle understeer.

- I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible, so while I do acknowledge the effects involved I don't think it makes that much of a difference.  At least not enough to warrant it's own calculation, but it can cause an undesireable feel.

- There are calculations and adjustments already in place to compensate for these effects.  Running a tighter rear diff., changing brake balance, and adjusting dampers, etc.

- If I did do further testing to compensate for these size differences, it would affect alot of cars.  These cars would need to be tested and the size differences would need to be measured.  This could be simplified of course, but it would still take time to find averages.  I don't want to spend too much more time testing, and there are several people around here that don't want me testing anymore either.  It would probably take me another week to sort this effect out with it's own calc.

- I'll look into it a bit further, but not too much.  I wanted to help people out a little, not make an ultimate chassis calculator.  If I gave away all the secrets of tuning, then it wouldn't be a challenge anymore and people would give trying to learn new things y'know?

I wasn't implying you should include tire width ratio calculations in v3 - more like, you should think of including it in the future.  I just wanted to see if you had thought of that variable at all, and it appears you have.  I just recently discovered it so...  ya.

And I can understand how you might not necessarily want to make an "ULTIMATE CHASSIS CALCULATOR!!!!!" haha, but at the same time, I think you're one of those kinds of people who believes the end product is always a definite function of the parts, and believes finding the formula to describe these relationships is valuable.  I know I'm one of those people.

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Keep it clean

I was revising a section of V3 today anyways, and it turns out I already had a note on inbalanced tire sizes.  So, i'm ahead of myself on that subject.  Basically it's just going to be an advanced tuning tip, not worthy of it's own calculation.

As far as the future is concerned, V3 is the end.  I won't be doing a V4.  I just wanna sit back and relax and enjoy the game like everyone else for awhile, y'know.  I'll make corrections as needed, but no new calcs.  I'm taking my time to ensure I have very few corrections to make after release as it is.

That said,....i'm touching up my trans calculator too.

 

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FM3 Suspension Calculator
http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/3073197.aspx

iPhone Suspension Calculator
http://forzatune.com/

Learn about Tuning at DIY RaceTuning
http://diy-racetuning.net/

Hey Feuerdog. Well now you're just teasing me. You sent me the fantastic car but it came with stock settings! Booo! Lol, I'm not complaining, although I was a little disappointed when I jumped straight into the settings to see what you had done.

I don't know if the settings don't get copied over with the car (I did check to see if there were any settings I could load) but it looks stock to me (I checked the tyre pressure and caster settings as the clue). When I'm back on tomorrow (it's midnight here right now and I'm at work for 7.30) I'll gift the car back to you if that's cool with you for you to work your magic?

Thanks again buddy, I realise you don't owe us anything (in fact it's quite the opposite).

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it'll buff out....

Forza Calc

Yep, sorry about that Kaedo, I already sent you a message asking for the car back.  I'll get it fixed asap.

I just hope yours was the only car!  I tried to be very methodical during construction, parts, tuning, paint, etc. but one or two cars may have slipped though.  The other possibility i'm afraid of is that in order for the tune to load to the car I might have to drive it first,.....hopefully not. 

I'll need everyone to check thier cars for the -.8/-.8 camber settings to be sure they have the right tune.

 

On the bright side, the cars have started shipping.  Feedback is always welcome, please gimme the good and the bad.

Half the cars are out, but I still need a few friends requests:

qbix
carn
cyan
wickedneoq
danrules
dirtdriver
shinysideup
bigmooingcow
oogoodemanoo

I need to doublecheck my PM's but I still need FR's from all of these people so I can send your car.

 

In other news.........During some further testing of my V3 RR settings tonight, I managed a 2nd lap hotlap of the Nurburgring in my A-class 996 911 GT3 and posted a rank 224 time, with no specific tweaking and an almost off the shelf gear tune.  The RR calcs are locked and loaded.

Testing tonight on the FA's and FF's went well, but I have one or two more cars to check to be sure.

 

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FM3 Suspension Calculator
http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/3073197.aspx

iPhone Suspension Calculator
http://forzatune.com/

Learn about Tuning at DIY RaceTuning
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OMG this car rocks.  I didn't have much time but I couldn't wait to see the car so I hopped in and ran it on the ring with no practice.  I did verify the setup is good (don't forget to save it so you don't accidently fall back to the default)  Anyways, I had a time around 130K on the ring.  Now one lap, first time driving this I'm 9K.  Mega leap! 

Thanks FD!  I owe you tons! 

v3 FTW...

Croisened

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You're as good as added now, feuerdog.  Still messing with my 1970s Trans Am cars, with some tweaking, I'm into the top 300 at Sunset Peninsula Infield (Clockwise) using V2 Calc and a rebuilt '69 Camaro SS.  Stock brakes are good to go? Who knew?! (Especially with no assists)

Hopefully one of the things fixed in V3 is the really stiff front springs on FRs I have.  Sometimes it's good to have them that stiff, but other times, it's something that's holding the car back.  When braking, for me at least, you just want to make it so that the car almost bottoms out, but not quite (speaking from the sense that I have front ride height as low as possible).  With V2, there's a really stiff spring rate there, that I've softened up quite a bit for Sunset, and it seems to work quite nicely. 

Still tweaking, but with a time of 1:29.767, I feel really good about it.  So far the main tweaking I'll leak is that I've brought tire pressures back to 30-30 (running Bridgestone slicks).  I did this because it actually helps hit that top speed sooner on my hot lap runs, so I can really nail a smooth first corner with almost 100% throttle and not go off into the rumble patch.  My heavy downforce philosophy was partially scrapped, but the spoiler is still there and works like it should on a few corners. 

In longer stints (8-25 lap runs, with pitting if necessary), the tires only give a little bit, but what they do give is problems with the middle section:  The hard left (that everyone goes off) at is proceeded by a left-right-left chicane, and I can't seem to keep the car from sliding through that section.  It makes it hard to keep speed up, and I have to lift the throttle.  How do I fix this, with dampers or anti-roll bar tweaking?  I just can't figure it out at the moment.

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[RCKT] - RCKT Racing Nova Scotia
Member of SimRacingHD.com's Forums
Open-wheel and sprintcar simulator racer

Croisened - Good to hear dude, glad you like it.

 

Wickedneoq - It's not that the front springs are too firm, it's the balance of front to rear springs.  You are correct to think they are too stiff, they are inbalanced that way to creat stability in the rear.  By softening them up you are advancing the tune closer to instability, which by it's very nature is faster.  You are already on the advanced tuning path.

Keep in mind though that spring feel is just part of the equation, another way to improve that front spring feel is to play with the dampers.  By softening the front spring you have essentially done several things at once,.....you have increased the stiffening effect of the front dampers, firmed up the rear springs, stiffened the front antiroll bar, changed the brake bias feel, and lightened the rear dampers all at the same time.  I'm not saying you're wrong to do what you've done, whatever works for you, but you might have acheived the same feel by just firming the front rebound, and/or softening the rear rebound.  It's not always as simple as that, but you should always be looking to make the smallest adjustment as possible to acheive the desired result.  Tuning springs is generally a gross adjustment. Just my .02

 

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FM3 Suspension Calculator
http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/3073197.aspx

iPhone Suspension Calculator
http://forzatune.com/

Learn about Tuning at DIY RaceTuning
http://diy-racetuning.net/

For all of that though, it's a very appropriate tuning adjustment.  Especially when it meant a full second a lap.  Maybe I'm just thinking from a NASCAR sense when it comes to front springs.  Technically, I need another 2.5 secs to get a ton out of the car, because the top "No assist" time is 1:27.25.  I'll have to see what I can do.

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[RCKT] - RCKT Racing Nova Scotia
Member of SimRacingHD.com's Forums
Open-wheel and sprintcar simulator racer

I'm not saying you are wrong at all, don't take the above the wrong way,i'm just saying to be careful with the spring adjustments is all.

If you need another 2+ seconds out of the lap, i'd suspect driving line and/or parts selection, 2 seconds is alot of time for a suspension tweak to absorb, especially at the top of the boards.

---

FM3 Suspension Calculator
http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/3073197.aspx

iPhone Suspension Calculator
http://forzatune.com/

Learn about Tuning at DIY RaceTuning
http://diy-racetuning.net/

Thanks for the info and the excel spread sheet !!

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"Not a bad way to spend 5,000 credits"

Can I get a chant started...

"Version 3 - Version 3 - Version 3 - Version 3..."

 

I'm gonna make this saying my new sig I think:

**Tuning can make a good driver great, but it can't make a bad driver good.  Please be prepared to accept the fact that you may just suck, like me, Croisened. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Version 3 will be out tomorrow, ready or not, I don't have time to finish the test cars today because i'm going to see HP&TOOTP on IMAX in 3D tonight. 

One more day.

 

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FM3 Suspension Calculator
http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/3073197.aspx

iPhone Suspension Calculator
http://forzatune.com/

Learn about Tuning at DIY RaceTuning
http://diy-racetuning.net/

Can't wait for V3.

Looking forward for tommorow. As soon as it is here i will update my program and start using it to tweak my cars.

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Suspension Calculator Program Download Based on FDv3

woot! cant wait!

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The crumpet is strong with this one...



**Tango Tuners**