Forzamotorsport.net Forums

simply mac:

(the Wheel shifts on its own from time to time, pauses the game and provides "wrong" feedback randomly)

That's very true... sad, but true... is this a problem with the first batch only, or still occurs with the newest builds`Anyone knows?

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GT: FTW Matio

i see... although i still prefer the wheel because it makes it so much more exciting and DUDE you get PEDALS

This is a fascinating exchange for me because of all the driving games I have Forza presents me the biggest problem - namely that the wheel is much more fun, but most of what I have left to do in the game is competitive (hotlapping time etc), and I am simply better with the controller. With other games like PGR or dirt if the wheel is too tricky for a track/car I can just turn the difficulty down, or switch to the controller for an odd race.

I have spent quite a bit of time comparing the two in Forza. My conclusions (for me at any rate):

1) The wheel takes longer to get used to. Loads have said this so wont go into it further.

2) When I had put the time in, I found that I could match times for certain cars. Grippy low power FWD cars (Classes D to B) in particular I can match controller times with the wheel and sometimes beat.

3) More powerful 'handling' cars like the Saleen are trickier to control - mainly because you really have to throw it into the corners to get fast times, and it's easier to judge with the controller.

4) Grippy race cars like the S4 are again pretty even.

5) (and perhaps most importantly) Muscle cars are pretty much impossible for me to control with the wheel. This is because with muscle cars you are constantly making 'taps' to control the cars direction that are difficult with the wheel, and also because throttle control with the pedals is tricky when it needs to be really good (and it does even with TCS on).

It is now received wisdom that several of the best players use the wheel - I don't know where this came from. If it is from forum posters talking to KimiMatt/BackOne please ask them one thing:

Do you use the wheel exclusively?

Because if Backone set those Time sick trial times, including the horrible ones on Tsukuba and Maple Valley with the Top Secret cars that require perfect throttle control, then I think his achievement is even greater.

BackOne uses the wheel only, so does KimiMatt.

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TRC factory:

Both people I have cited switched from the controller to the wheel, and got faster.  Your personal experience does not equal empirical data.  It is simply your experience.  Every one of my friends, except one, got faster once they switched to the wheel, and some drive with ABS, some drive without it. 

...Some people are faster with the wheel, some are faster with the controller...

But was it hours of practise /after/ the switch actually what made them faster?  They'd have to go back for a suitable period of time and see. If/when their times are faster still on the controller they might agree with the OP.

I'd say this idea that "some people are quicker with the wheel and others with the controller" is probably a fallacious idea to use to decide whether the OP is correct. Clearly the fastest possible time [difficult to determine of course] is what matters and which controller, if not both, can be used to get that time.

People who can't get the fastest time but can get closer to it with one controller over the other don't tell us anything about which controller is the fastest. That includes the OP as you note, but it probably includes everyone else too, unless they've actually done a cant-be-beaten-fastest-lap :)

As a dedicated controller user, i would say the wheel is faster, just from experience.  The controller is too twitchy, you lose precious time make little corrections, because it is very difficult to be as smooth on the controller as you can be with the wheel.  On a straightaway in a missile car, with a wheel you can hold the car to a smooth path if it starts wobbling.  With a controller, you have to flick the stick to correct it, sometimes enducing it to turn too much, costing time.  The wheel is much more smoother.   

For example:

V12 BackOne Abs - fastest in Time Trials uses the wheel, as does R2P Kimimatt.  If I'm not mistaken so does Daveyskills, as well as many other V12 members.  The guy i would call the fastest controller user, iPicaso, who has spent, as you say, hours of practice, has repeatedly say that the wheel is faster, and he is an incredible quality driver. 

Thats my $0.02 

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GT - V12 Iridium

As another controller user, I'd love to be able to use the "wheel is faster" excuse for my lack of speed. But I fear that it depends on the track as to which is faster. On the tracks where you would use a missile, I believe that the wheel will be faster as you're not turning as much and can make smaller, smoother inputs with the wheel.

I suspect the position is reversed on the twisty tracks though, where the faster turn time of the controller would give it an advantage (just the idea of trying to tackle the sawteeth on the snake tracks makes my biceps ache!).

But, not having tried the wheel this is all supposition - perhaps someone can confirm if my thought processes are on the right lines or not.

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"My mistakes are not errors, just predictions immediately proved wrong." - Murray Walker

http://www.forza-tuning.net

GT: Spiny Anteater

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GT: V12 BackONE AbS

V12.forumfree.net

Snyder005:

As a dedicated controller user, i would say the wheel is faster, just from experience.  The controller is too twitchy, you lose precious time make little corrections, because it is very difficult to be as smooth on the controller as you can be with the wheel.  On a straightaway in a missile car, with a wheel you can hold the car to a smooth path if it starts wobbling.  With a controller, you have to flick the stick to correct it, sometimes enducing it to turn too much, costing time.  The wheel is much more smoother. ...

I wonder, with time and experience, how effectively smooth a controller can become if you keep the thumbstick pushed forward/backward against the stops. Any left-and-right movement of the stick would be done against the rim of the controller, smoothing the inputs.

Question is, does pushing the stick forward against the rim cancel out the inside deadzone, thus making it difficult just to keep the control centered?

TRC factory:

BackOne uses the wheel only, so does KimiMatt.

So do I...granted I'm not Kimimatt of BackOne fast, but I will say I'm much better with the wheel than controller.  Once your brain (muscle memory mabye?) learns what every little vibration and sound means, the precision part gets easy. 

If you use the wheel enough you won't be thinking about slip angles and all that junk...you'll just drive and push it the way it's meant to be pushed.

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CT Tuning - Tuner/Hotlapper

I am also a wheel user and I am actually faster with the wheel than the controller. Using the wheel just feels more natural to me and I am better able to drive the car at the limit using it.

For me the biggest advantage to the wheel is having pedals which enables me to use different techniques for different circumstances/corners, for instance on some corners I prefer to use left foot braking which allows me to blimp the gas pedal while I use my left foot to brake, this keeps the car balanced and allows me to get back on full throttle faster as I don't have to move my right foot from the brake to the gas as my right foot is already over the gas pedal just waiting.

I believe I can go faster with a few tweaks to the wheel settings so I am currently searching for settings that most of the faster drivers use to see if those will suit my driving style.

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Real Jamaican..... Born Jamaican

Actually the way the Xbox wheel is setup you can't use gas/brake at the same time.  If you are braking you can't apply throttle until you let off the brake.

I noticed this while using my wheel with LFS.  I was setting up my wheel and getting the deadzones setup...i pressed the gas in and let up, pressed the brake in and let up, then for some reason decided to press in the gas then the brake, but when I hit the brake the throttle dropped to zero.

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CT Tuning - Tuner/Hotlapper

Well I can't say whether both are being applied at the same time but certainly using this technique has seen my lap times improving. Maybe just the act of doing this results in me being more relaxed.

I will check the replays tomorrow though to see what the telemetry says when I attempt this but certainly for me the car feels more balanced and my corner exit speeds are usually higher.

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Real Jamaican..... Born Jamaican

racingsimjunkie:

...For me the biggest advantage to the wheel is having pedals which enables me to use different techniques for different circumstances/corners, for instance on some corners I prefer to use left foot braking which allows me to blimp the gas pedal while I use my left foot to brake, this keeps the car balanced and allows me to get back on full throttle faster as I don't have to move my right foot from the brake to the gas as my right foot is already over the gas pedal just waiting. ...

Umm— somebody using a controller can always pull the left trigger while blipping the right, you know...

DashingLeper:

racingsimjunkie:

...For me the biggest advantage to the wheel is having pedals which enables me to use different techniques for different circumstances/corners, for instance on some corners I prefer to use left foot braking which allows me to blimp the gas pedal while I use my left foot to brake, this keeps the car balanced and allows me to get back on full throttle faster as I don't have to move my right foot from the brake to the gas as my right foot is already over the gas pedal just waiting. ...

Umm— somebody using a controller can always pull the left trigger while blipping the right, you know...

Umm - I am not making an argument against that fact. I simply stated my personal preference and what I find more natural to ME, you know.... At the end of the day in my opinion it all boils down to personal preference.

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Real Jamaican..... Born Jamaican

BackONE:

Several v12 have the steering wheel but use the pad.
I am the only v12 using the steering wheel (at the moment)

watson all v12 have the wheel but use the pad. always use the pad because they are better, are very fast with the pad.

 

 

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GT: V12 BackONE AbS

V12.forumfree.net

thanks backbone , this clear up many myths.


Lets say it "include a n option in F3 to swich of the assisted steering "

> Actually the way the Xbox wheel is setup you can't use gas/brake at the same time.

Yeah, I've not seen any evidence in top replays that this is used [and thus required] anyway.

Indeed, as for all this talk of being "smoother" with the wheel or that the normal controller's input is smoother because of processing [It clearly has to be processed anyway just because of the amount of travel]

 I've not seen any evidence that top times are anything to do with being smooth [at least in the sense the term might be used IRL driving]

If anything the opposite is true. The AI is smooth and, for example, in the factory spec races the top times make a mockery of the AI on hard [and as such make a mockery of folk like me even trying to be smooth or trying to copy the AI's way of driving or thinking about beating the game in those terms.

[ as an aside which buffoons were in the meeting at Turn 10 that let you change the rims in factory spec? I'm watching all these Top 10 replays thinking "So how did they get on Pole? Is it random? " ,,,and then you see they've upgraded the car...like d'oh, factory @$#%ing spec]

In most replays I watch the top times are anything but smooth or following the racing line, thus I don't see what difference the smoothness of the controller makes [at least from the POV of considering the game to relate at all to something we call "driving" or the wheel used in that game to relate to the wheel in a real car]

I suspect the Guitar Hero controller might just as well be used by someone who has sussed what actually to do to be fast in Forza 2 given sufficient practise. The rest of us, well at least I can speak for myself here, I don't even know what to practise to get quicker - but I'm pretty sure that it's not being smooth, because that barely beats the [smooth] AI.

Hm... what's your definition of "being smooth"... for me it means... gentle steering inputs, keeping the weight transfer of teh car smooth... finding the right shifting points... that's smooth in my book and certainly required (with a lesser degree for muscle cars) to get good times...

The displayed driving line is not the fastest by all means... youcan use it as a visible track point to set your braking points maybe, but in order to find the fastest line you better watch the top replays

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GT: FTW Matio