Forzamotorsport.net Forums

MR runs into issues of center of rotation as well as space, look at the stratos, it was MR and suffered from spins because of it's center of gravity(as well as had poor visibility because of the engine location)

most MR veicles have a short wheelbase(elise for example) if it wasn't for the amazing suspension they put on allot of the cars that are MR they would spin like a top on hard corners without careful acceleration and counter steering(and the rally cars based on it didn't fare too well because of the weight balance and torque load)

i prefer a FR or F4 car, beacuse the the layout gives you none of the problems of RR and MR being during cornering you need to restrict the entrance speed to prevent the front tires from lifting due to torque effects on your exit acceleration, or be VERY lucky with your countersteer and acceleration on the exit. there are very few FF cars that i like, but the ones i do like are around 52 - 58% weight front(and are definately no bigger then a 4cyl)

mind you my driving "style" consists of outside to inside drift passes on S curves. and lots of coasting to turns instead of breaking.

---

the beatings will continue until morale improves.

height launched from = 6 feet
distance traveled = 15 feet
appx speed = 80km/h
backwards, sideways, and landed in a bog.

Bonez321:

MR runs into issues of center of rotation as well as space, look at the stratos, it was MR and suffered from spins because of it's center of gravity(as well as had poor visibility because of the engine location)

most MR veicles have a short wheelbase(elise for example) if it wasn't for the amazing suspension they put on allot of the cars that are MR they would spin like a top on hard corners without careful acceleration and counter steering(and the rally cars based on it didn't fare too well because of the weight balance and torque load)

I always thought that MR cars handled better (i.e., didn't spin as easily) precisely because the weight distribution favored the center of the car. But yeah, good point about FR vs. RR/MR on corner exit.

---

Che "No Game Info" Chou
Turn 10 Community Manager
http://forzamotorsport.net

I was always under the impression that MR was pretty much the way to go.  I know MR2 Turbos, even when stock are kind of tail happy, but as long as you keep it in check i have heard they are like go carts through the corners.  I would imagine the most unpredictable would be Porsche.

As far as Forza goes im all about MR...B Class the 92' NSX-R is a beast, can still set top 30 times, A class the F355 is killer, and for Nurburgring in S class i love the S3 Ferrair 360, F355 and all the NSX's.

 

Btw i konw this is off topic, but Che, will there be any more midweek challenges...maybe post Xmas/New Years...i just got my internet back after 6 months of playing offline and have been waiting to take part in one.

---

TRC Scooty:

Btw i konw this is off topic, but Che, will there be any more midweek challenges...maybe post Xmas/New Years...i just got my internet back after 6 months of playing offline and have been waiting to take part in one.

From last week pitpass:

''As well, thanks for understanding about the lack of Turn 10 Mid-Week Challenge tournaments in December as well. We didn't hold one this past week because I spent a couple key days in Los Angeles, CA, checking out the LA Auto Show, an event which this week's Pitpass Report will focus on (albeit a little late since we didn't get a jump on the show via the press pass route last week so if you're already sick to death of the LA Auto Show, then this will be a rather short write-up for you). ''

http://forzamotorsport.net/devcorner/pitpass/pitpass27.htm

woops...didn't read the entire Pit Pass, just skimmed it, thx Drows.

---

Personally as far as racing goes, at least in forza (because I can't afford to in real life). I prefer RWD hands down, AWD I like every now and again, especially in the C class. However in real life I drive a FWD, dodge avenger to be excat. Slow, and heavy thing, but great on the snow, and being the midwest we get plenty of that. Fuel efficient, not really again the weight is probably why, but its still fun to drive and one day I hope to try my hand at some auto x in it. However my brother has a fire breathing camaro, and that thing is one hell of alot more fun, sucks for dd though in my opinion, does to much of what it wants rather than what I want. This all being said RWD for racing, FWD for dd, IMO.

in real life, i am a FWD driver... all 3 of my cars have been (96 Grand Am GT, 98 VW Jetta WOB, 06 Jetta 2.5) and i don't know if i will ever go for a daily driver that's RWD, unless i find myself in a BMW.  one of my ambitions in life is to own a porsche (or two), but that would definitely be my little track ***.

in terms of straight performance and running fast laps, i can turn faster laps in RWD cars because of the additional steering control with the throttle, but if i'm in a properly tuned FWD (like the GLI or GTI), i love the level of control... those cars experience very little understeer.

i put AWD at the bottom of my list because the few subarus i have driven left a bad taste in my mouth... odd as it may seem, i at least FEEL like i can handle any one of my FWD cars better, even on a track.

the integra type R was a great example to throw up there... even with only a 1.8L NA engine, that thing runs circles around some larger displacement RWD and AWD setups, even with turbos...

---

I'm 24 years old and I drift shopping carts.

I myself am a fan of the SCC which pushes me to the FWD, but I am also a Sports Car fan which pushes me to RWD.  I think the question would be in what contexts you mean.  When under 250 HP or maybe even up to 300 HP Max FWD but over that RWD for me.  But to be honest I hate AWD.  At least in game since I have never driven an AWD car in real life I am not sure how they run.

---

Gamertag=OMC Mc Fearson
How to clear a room of Chodes? 1 lap of the Nürburgring

I like apples AND oranges.  Both are a tasty citrus fruit, both taste good as juice.

Apple pie is very good, and so is orange sorbet.

You don't have to peel an apple to enjoy it, and it won't make a mess of your hands.

Oranges have little bit sized segments that you can share with others, and they smell alot better than apples too.

Apples come in many varieties, and so do oranges.

My choice of the two,.....oranges, but in the end they are both a great choice of healthy snack.

 

I really like bananas.  (AWD)  They require a little more work, and they can be a touch slippery, but the payoff is more fun and versatile. 

PS:  MR beats FF and FR

All the cars I've driven on track in real life be it autocross, RR, bracket racing or even dirt have been RWD. In Forza, I prefer RWD. I'll indulge FWD for D & C class as required. B class and up, I prefer RWD for the reasons mentioned by Che. Easier to adjust the attitude, no shared duty on the tires, etc.

In a car that I'm using to pick up my kids from school FWD is preferred, again for the reasons mentioned.

As far as FWD having fewer parts, etc., I don't know about that. You don't have the long drive shaft but everything else is still there. Maybe smaller though. One thing you get with FWD are CV joints.

---

A small but vocal customer...

Yeah and try replacing the clutch on a FWD car!

---

Twerp129:

Yeah and try replacing the clutch on a FWD car!

Well that, like all work on cars, depends on the car

I prefer FWD for many reasons, but none of those are because it's better at anything than RWD or AWD.  I like the challenge of racing a highly powered FWD car, I like the 'underdog' stigma that comes with them, but I like them mostly because of the Super Touring days of the BTCC (~92-00) now that was some good racing

I do love to drive RWD and AWD cars aswell.  There aren't too many cars that provide the fun of the MX-5, Boxter, Evo and Skyline.  And muscle just wouldn't be the same if they powered the front wheels, lol!

In summary: I like FWD, AWD and RWD but if it's got 4 wheels and an engine I'll drive the s***t out of it

---

My Gallery
GT: g3TurboD

Damn........ I was gonna say BTCC.

Have any of you's watched that series, it may change your mind.

http://www.btcc.net/html/home.php

---

"To finish first, first you must finish!"

g3TurboD:

Twerp129:

Yeah and try replacing the clutch on a FWD car!

Well that, like all work on cars, depends on the car

I prefer FWD for many reasons, but none of those are because it's better at anything than RWD or AWD.  I like the challenge of racing a highly powered FWD car, I like the 'underdog' stigma that comes with them, but I like them mostly because of the Super Touring days of the BTCC (~92-00) now that was some good racing

I do love to drive RWD and AWD cars aswell.  There aren't too many cars that provide the fun of the MX-5, Boxter, Evo and Skyline.  And muscle just wouldn't be the same if they powered the front wheels, lol!

In summary: I like FWD, AWD and RWD but if it's got 4 wheels and an engine I'll drive the s***t out of it

Hmmm... MX-5... must buy....

I suppose there are people in this world who do not think it's fun when your rear tires lose traction around a corner. ;)

---

Che "No Game Info" Chou
Turn 10 Community Manager
http://forzamotorsport.net

I love RWD in every aspect of how a car with it reacts to the road, performance-wise, and especially how you can have fun with it.  I've got a SVT Cobra and it naturally has RWD, what an awesome combination! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zmYHL4yv1k - Exhibit A, me in the Cobra

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im9F_1ZO0Fg - Exhibit B, Greatest Burnout ever, i'm not saying you can't do this in a FWD car, but it sure as hell isn't as cool as this, lol.

 

-Montague

---

97 SVT Cobra Vert:
1/76 built
Steeda Adj. Clutch Cable
Clutch Cable Quadrant
Firewall Adjuster
MGW Short Throw Shifter
MGW Cobra Gripper Shift Knob
8.5mm MSD Plug Wires
K&N
FR500 Black Deep Dish Wheels
18x9,8x10
High flow exhaust *none*

chespace:

g3TurboD:

Twerp129:

Yeah and try replacing the clutch on a FWD car!

Well that, like all work on cars, depends on the car

I prefer FWD for many reasons, but none of those are because it's better at anything than RWD or AWD.  I like the challenge of racing a highly powered FWD car, I like the 'underdog' stigma that comes with them, but I like them mostly because of the Super Touring days of the BTCC (~92-00) now that was some good racing

I do love to drive RWD and AWD cars aswell.  There aren't too many cars that provide the fun of the MX-5, Boxter, Evo and Skyline.  And muscle just wouldn't be the same if they powered the front wheels, lol!

In summary: I like FWD, AWD and RWD but if it's got 4 wheels and an engine I'll drive the s***t out of it

Hmmm... MX-5... must buy....

I suppose there are people in this world who do not think it's fun when your rear tires lose traction around a corner. ;)

Those people would be called women Che.

---

chespace:

g3TurboD:

Twerp129:

Yeah and try replacing the clutch on a FWD car!

Well that, like all work on cars, depends on the car

I prefer FWD for many reasons, but none of those are because it's better at anything than RWD or AWD.  I like the challenge of racing a highly powered FWD car, I like the 'underdog' stigma that comes with them, but I like them mostly because of the Super Touring days of the BTCC (~92-00) now that was some good racing

I do love to drive RWD and AWD cars aswell.  There aren't too many cars that provide the fun of the MX-5, Boxter, Evo and Skyline.  And muscle just wouldn't be the same if they powered the front wheels, lol!

In summary: I like FWD, AWD and RWD but if it's got 4 wheels and an engine I'll drive the s***t out of it

Hmmm... MX-5... must buy....

I suppose there are people in this world who do not think it's fun when your rear tires lose traction around a corner. ;)

I suppose there would be.  There are people who think driving at the speed limit is too fast too.  It seems I'm always behind them...

And who's to say that FWD cars can't lose rear wheel traction in a corner too?  Mine does, and it's fun   though not as fun as a RWD car that's for sure.

---

My Gallery
GT: g3TurboD

Having read the article that started this thread, I gotta say...a lot of the reasons why the FWD car is good should just be thrown out since all that matters in a performance aspect are the things that make a car fast.  (This comes from a guy who drives a FWD car, an fairly moded SRT4...and also happens to crew for a SCCA team that fields 2 very succesfull Vipers)

FWD cars are lighter?  Nope, completey a farce, Miata MX-5 vs. MazdaSpeed3 both 2 of the smallest cars Mazda makes...guess which is lighter...one could make the same comparision of a current S2000 and a Civic Si...I find the same to be true of larger FWD and RWD cars.

More Efficent...were talking about on a race track or in any go fast situation...first WHO CARES!!! Second depends on the car again, my SRT4 goes through just as much gas as the Viper on track.  This may not be the case for all applications maybe a Civic Si driver is going to go longer running flat out than a guy driving a Viper, but the guy driving the Viper will be so far ahead that he will have time to stop and fill up!

Better traction in adverse situations...last time I checked they dont race when there is ice on the track and just cause you may be able to get moving a little easier doesnt mean you stop any better! I can see the value in FWD over RWD in a rally situation.

Easier to control for your average shmo...last time I checked average schmo's dont drive fast FWD cars or if they do would quickly discover that driving a FWD car too fast into a corner is a lot harder to recover from then doing the same with a RWD car.  Wheels on a FWD car have to do all the work acceleration, turning and stopping. That means that they will allways be slower in a corner. More over high horsepower FWD cars have a helluva time putting that power to the ground, lots of wheel spin = bad acceration.

Easier to Maintain...Ok...anyone who has ever pulled a transaxle or changed a cluctch on a FWD car laughed out loud at this one...next.

More Passenger room...is there room for the Driver?  There is...ok..moving on.

So I think its safe for us to assume that there is no point in arguing that a FWD car is not going to be better in a performance aspect when comparing cars that have comperable specs(HP/Weight ratio) and for this forum, who cares about any other reason.

AWD vs RWD...thats a whole different topic.

 

 

 

---

If you aint first...your LAST!

This might seem random but on the Nurburgring, the Carrera GT is qucker than the Bugatti Veyron.

Carrera GT = RWD

Bugatti Veyron = FWD

Except for the specific circumstance of amateur off-road rally, RWD will be superior, and even then, a well driven RWD would not be at a huge disadvantage...the FWD would be easier to drive fast in a rally application.

Why is RWD superior for track use??

1.  As mentioned before, under acceleration weight shifts to rear

2.  As mentioned, split usage of tires.  A RWD driver can better manage temperature for his/her tires.

3.  Throttle steering: far more effective with RWD.

4.  Only FR (& AWD of course) cars suffer the added weight of a driveshaft and rear end, MR cars garner no such weight penalty.

5. FWD limits the amount of useful horsepower by virtue of #s 1 & 2, weight shifting away from drive wheels limits power-to-ground potential, ditto overheating(of the tires) from dual use of front tires for steering/power.

5.  I side with those who cite Forza as a racing game, thus mitigating the weight I grant the factors of interior room & practicality.  (says the MR2 driver)

I drive an MR2 Turbo...and yes, it handles only slightly less like a go-kart than a miata.  Mine is currently bone stock.  MR cars in general do tend to handle better than the other types IMHO.  The weight balance front-to-rear helps, but many MR cars don't have a 50/50 split, the MR2 doesn't, no Lamborghini does, Porsches don't (911s are RR of course), and only a couple of Ferraris do.  The MR2 has some tendancy towards lift-off oversteer, but that can be useful as well as tricky (see throttle steering).  Provoking an MR2 into power oversteer really takes effort, or wet pavement, I autocross as well as take mine to track days, and I have little issue romping on the throttle out of all but the tightest autocross hairpins.  The tricky thing in the wet...if you're actually trying to go fast, is that it will tend to snap around after initially understeering a bit...but that is really it's only nasty habit.  The key with MR is to be smooth, you can chuck an FR car around a little and still make a corner look nice, MR is a little less forgiving of violent driving styles....AWD is of course the ultimate blunt object....and yes I do get murdered regularly by STIs and EVOs at the autocrosses (giving away 80hp). 

Side notes:

-Lamborghini RGT Murcielago converted from AWD to RWD for racing for two reasons:  weight & rules.

-AWD vs. RWD, read a comparison between a porsche C2 & C4, the C2 was quicker for a single lap with a pro at the wheel, amateurs were quicker in C4;  C2 can throttle steer, & weighs less, C4 has more grip accelerating from slow corners. 

Sorry for the long post, but them's my two cents