First of all this setup guide really works.  On Tsukuba I was stuck around the mid 54s trying to use a FA vis integra.  Used this guide and almost immediately dropped into the 53s and after 20 minutes of free run did a 52.5 or so.  So much less understeer now.  I think when you swap engines and change the 'type' of car, ie ff to fr, or ff to fa in my case, I think thats why the default setups become very poor starting points for tuning.  This guide really helped.

Anyways I have two questions after all this:

1.  Watching replays I noticed that with both front tires the outside of the tire is noticabely hotter than the inside of the tire.  On Tsukuba the front left tire had a 10F difference and the front right tire had a 5-6F difference.  The difference parts of the rear tires were almost all the same, always within 1-2F.  Does this indicate any problems with the camber or something in the front of the car?

2.  In some turns the front inside tire will lose traction, does this matter?  The front outside tire will be doing tons of work and be a nice huge green circle, but the front inside will keep turning red.  Is the front diff trying to make the inside tire turn too fast?  Is this too any big concern?

Overall I really love my cars setup right now, the only thing I wish I could improve would be high speed sweeping corners where I wish I was able to carry more speed through.  I was wonder if either of the above problems might be causing the understeer I feel in these turns.

Don Lupo:

Hapes:

Don Lupo:

No. Nothing wrong with the original calculations in this thread. However the spreadsheets and online calculators that are based on this thread are wrong.

Luckily, I manually did the calculations for my first setup, so I got a flavour for the types of values that should be thrown out. Those going straight to an automatic calculator may not be so lucky.

In response to this, my question is this:  If the online calculators are wrong, is the first entry in this thread that details the calculations correct?  Basically, feuerdog, you've edited that first post?  If not, I'd be glad to go through the pages of the thread to make sure we have a current set of calculations.  

It's not a serious problem. I think that in one of the original spreadsheets that was created, a mistake was made whereby Bump was labelled Rebound and vice-versa.

Other spreadsheets and the web-calculators have simply copied this mistake.

Erm...I don't know what all the fuss is about, using THIS calculator, all the values are correct to the extent of my knowledge and the bump/rebound aren't switched.
So whats all the commotion about? (Unless you guys are using a different calculator)

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[Mod edit: Sig size exceeds forum limits, 480x115 pixels max - D]

ibdelfest:

Erm...I don't know what all the fuss is about, using THIS calculator, all the values are correct to the extent of my knowledge and the bump/rebound aren't switched.
So whats all the commotion about? (Unless you guys are using a different calculator)

Ah that calculator has been corrected since the last time I used it, and Redhair's has too, so all's good. :D

spoon:

iammatt00:

Ok!!!!  After 5 Hours of Work, I have finally finished my Calculator using this fine guide.  You can view it here:
http://fm2calc.ruinedmylife.com/

I can easily add User Accounts/Save Functions if there is enough interest, let me know what you all think of this please, so I can continue to improve this calculator!

nice site mate maybe any chance of making it convert to metric so the european people can use it to :)

He is working on a metric version if i remember right.
Last he said he was about 20% finished =)

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Gamertag: NitriusX
Playing: Forza 3

Nitrius:

spoon:

iammatt00:

Ok!!!!  After 5 Hours of Work, I have finally finished my Calculator using this fine guide.  You can view it here:
http://fm2calc.ruinedmylife.com/

I can easily add User Accounts/Save Functions if there is enough interest, let me know what you all think of this please, so I can continue to improve this calculator!

nice site mate maybe any chance of making it convert to metric so the european people can use it to :)

He is working on a metric version if i remember right.
Last he said he was about 20% finished =)

You could just use an online unit converter to convert from metric in the meanwhile.

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[Mod edit: Sig size exceeds forum limits, 480x115 pixels max - D]

Yea i know, but i've had some problems with the lb/in to kgf/mm converting, so if you know of an online calculator which do that right, give me the link.

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Gamertag: NitriusX
Playing: Forza 3

Nitrius:

Yea i know, but i've had some problems with the lb/in to kgf/mm converting, so if you know of an online calculator which do that right, give me the link.

Very accurate weight converter HERE
-Just choose kilograms to lb, lbs (1 kilogram is 2.204 622 622 lbs)
-Choose amount to convert
-Click convert

Very accurate length converter HERE
-Just choose millimeters to inches
-Choose amount to convert (1 millimeter is 2.54 inches)
-Click convert

That good enought for now?

...Jads...

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[Mod edit: Sig size exceeds forum limits, 480x115 pixels max - D]

Many thanks to everyone who has worked on this.

Now that I have some of my cars Handling Properly seems the only problem I have left,

Is the one Between the seat and steering wheel.

Zamiels:

Many thanks to everyone who has worked on this.

Now that I have some of my cars Handling Properly seems the only problem I have left,

Is the one Between the seat and steering wheel.

 

LOL

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it'll buff out....

Forza Calc

Still there is something wrong, i got 390 on the springs from the suspension calculator, so i took that to the calculator you gave me, said 390 inch to millimeters, and it gave me 390 inch = 9 906 millimeter, and i cant set that number in the spring option.

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Gamertag: NitriusX
Playing: Forza 3

I think you are suposed to convert lbs to kg. which would be 390lbs = 176.9kg, but you might have to divide 176.9 since one unit is pounds per inch and the other is kg per mm. There are 2.54 mm per inch.

Narin:

I think you are suposed to convert lbs to kg. which would be 390lbs = 176.9kg, but you might have to divide 176.9 since one unit is pounds per inch and the other is kg per mm. There are 2.54 mm per inch.

I see the problem. AHAAAA!!! Here we have a torque calculator...try this: HERE
We are converting the value of lb(s)/in and kg/mm
I see the problem, this converter should solve it I believe.

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[Mod edit: Sig size exceeds forum limits, 480x115 pixels max - D]

390 pound inch = 449.328 602 938 kilogram centimeter
That doesn't sound right? (Dont forget, This above has to be converted to milimeter, so 4493.28 602 938)
Hmmmm....this is a problem...gimme a while to think...I'll come up with something.
I can't think right now!!! There must be a simple solution.
If you right down all the values you put into the calculator and the car then it will help because we will both be using the same values.

Also if you can type up the adjustment ranges of the car you are using so I know what values sound right. Thanks

...Jads...

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[Mod edit: Sig size exceeds forum limits, 480x115 pixels max - D]

This is the values i use:
1136kg or 2504lb
Front 57% - Rear 43%
FA
Normal

This is the spec of the car, if you meant other values, please explain which.

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Gamertag: NitriusX
Playing: Forza 3

Those are the right values. I am going to use those and make tests relative to those values. (and others?)

I am trying to work out how to convert the units, and it seem not to be working. Ill post on my finds later.

EDIT:
390.6 pound inch = 4500.19 877 712 kilogram millimeter
360.6 pound inch = 4154.56 139 024 kilogram millimeter

These are the values I get.
By the way-The maker(s) or the calculator (I believe feurerdog and iammatt00) if you guys could incorporate units into the next build of the online calc that would be a huge help. Thanx

...Jads...

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[Mod edit: Sig size exceeds forum limits, 480x115 pixels max - D]

You probably know, but the value 4500 is much to high to be put in the Front springs, the higest value possible to use on the spring value is 92.52 kgf/mm.

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Gamertag: NitriusX
Playing: Forza 3

Hello
Thank you for this setup guide, finally i have an idea how to tune a car and drive descent laptime with it.
It's a good guide for basic tuning and after that tune it to your own driving style.
There is one thing i wonder, should the HP effect the suspension? Becouse with a lot of HP the suspension need an other setup (i think) then a car with low HP(same weight).
You don't mention that in your guide. Also i think the settings of the differential is altered by HP.
How you gonna tune such a car with a lot more HP then the basic car has?
I tried your guide to tune a Renault Clio v6. kicked it all the way to S- class.
It drives ok, but is very hard to handle.

Greetings Alvori

crazeecouga:

Don Lupo:

I'm pretty sure that the spreadsheets and online calculators are displaying Bump and Rebound stiffness the wrong way round.

Rebound is a fraction of Bump in the original calculations, yet Rebound is displayed as having the higher value!

Umm...do you mean the final numbers you get as the setting...because that would be impossible...you find the number for the Bump and then you multiply that by either half (.5) or 7/10ths (.7) my numbers are:
Front bump:9.9 Front Rebound: 4.9  Rear bump 4.0 rear rebound 2.8 they are lower everytime i do it...on another car i got : F Bump: 6.5 F rebound 4.5  R Bump 7.0 R Rebound 3.5  check your numbers again and make sure you are entering the numbers correctly...If indeed I'm comprehending what you are saying correctly.

EDIT:

EmptyApartment:

^^yea im was wondering the same, anybody have any info on that? (this is speaking on redshirts'  online calculator  that performs all the calculations)

This is like comparing apples and oranges..you need to run your numbers manually through this calculator and these numbers SHOULD be accurate. You can't ask for help regarding a totally different calculator. Its like me asking you how to use my TI-83 when you only use a basic scientific calculator. if you look at inputs and outputs of this guide...you will see that you multiply the bump by .5 or .7 or whatever the number may be for your car. .5 and .7 IS a fraction of the bump

I've double checked my calc (in the sig) and it mimics the current guide feuerdog has up at the beginning of the thread.
I belive this conversation of which should be bigger - bump or rebound was held earlier this week - start around this thread:
http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/permalink/281084/262383/ShowThread.aspx#262383 Though I could be wrong.

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Online Forza 2 Suspension Calculator
http://www.redshirt1701.com/Forza2/suspensioninput.cfm
Based on Suspension Guide by Feuerdog
http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/1/256899/ShowThread.aspx

I really stink at tuning cars, but I love this game.  I tried this calculator and it improved my cars handling alot.  The only problem I have now is the gears.  For example I drive a class c lotus r135 that i tuned using the calculator.  The handling is great, but the speed in the straights is horrible.  I can beat the AI all day if the track has mainly corners,  but it there is a long straight I'm in trouble.  I could have a 2 second lead,  but nce the straight comes the AI's just fly by me.  I then catch them in the corners, but the finish line is normally on a straight.  So all the AI have to do is keep it close until the last corner then they catch me for the win. This is very frustrating.  How can I get my speed up in the straights?  The only thing I've ever touch in my gearing is moving the top bar.  Moving it closer to speed or acceleration.  Thanks for the tuning calculator.

Alvori:

....... should the HP effect the suspension? Becouse with a lot of HP the suspension need an other setup (i think) then a car with low HP(same weight).
You don't mention that in your guide.

Actually, that effect is somewhat built in.  The variables are setup so that, for the most part, the higher performance cars will handle correctly.  It's the slower cars that suffer because they don't have enough power to use the parts and settings to thier full potential.

The ratios I use for springs and damper settings are linear but not parallel in proportional.  The weight of the car vs. it's power is a more critical element in determining how it should handle.  The settings take this ratio into effect.  Try what I did,.....set up a 1400lb 130hp D-class Elan Sprint, and then setup a 600hp 5400lb S-class Bentley GT.  If those two extremes handle well then everything else should fall into place.   

Also i think the settings of the differential is altered by HP.
How you gonna tune such a car with a lot more HP then the basic car has?
I tried your guide to tune a Renault Clio v6. kicked it all the way to S- class.
It drives ok, but is very hard to handle.

The diff. works the same regardless of HP,....how the diff. "feels" when you add 400HP+ is going to change many things, not just the diff.  The tricky part about an S-class Clio is the limit of traction based on tire size, in relation the the weight of the car which is quite low, in comination with the short wheelbase that this car has.  It's a tiny car!  With all that power vs. weight, it's going to be really hard to keep stable.  This is a fact of life with speed,...it's going to amplify any weakness of a given chassis and it's setup.

Once again, this is not an ultimate setup guide, it's just a beginning.

Greetings Alvori

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FM3 Suspension Calculator
http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/3073197.aspx

iPhone Suspension Calculator
http://forzatune.com/

Learn about Tuning at DIY RaceTuning
http://diy-racetuning.net/