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i think alot of readers are getting confused about this f1 topic. i dont want to see f1 cars in forza,but rather we all want to see a f1 game come out for the 360. i personally dont want to see f1 cars in forza the LMP cars that are on forza are good enough for me. im not speaking 4 everyone on this site, i is just my opinion.

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EEEECHIRO

and which ones were the better female drivers danica patrick?

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EEEECHIRO

F1, Indy cars are boring.

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Now after IndyCaar and ChampCarhave made up I am safe to say IndyCar.

F1 is an engineers series, NASCAR is a pit crew series and Indycar is a drivers series.

Looking forward to IndyCar World Series in 09. It is only going to get better and better. What other series has the diversity? The on track competition? The speed? The technicality? What other series has a tripple crown (circuit, street and oval)? What other series has the Indy 500?

Besides, now with Codemasters grabbing the overpriced F1 license that doesn't leave much of a choice. Im sure if T10 was interested they could nab IndyCar rights for a steal.Would love to see Turn10 throw a Dallara chassis and another oval up for DLC while we all wait for Forza 3.

My "vote" would have to go to F! for a number of reasons (I'll get to the ChampCar/Indy merge later)

 

Firstly, F1 has stayed "truer" to what made me interested in it years ago: You still have various engines, various chassis, multiple tyre compounds and drivers from all over the world, including some champions of other series. The fact that the engines are "stuck" for the next couple of years initially annoyed me, but this year has seen BMW improve greatly and Toyota and Honda get better speed and reliability as well, so it works out.

Now... My gripes with IndyCar/ChampCar...

When it was announced that there would be a merger, I instantly thought "Great! American F1 With Ovals is back!" as that's what I considered The CART/IndyCar series of the 80s and early 90s. I figured they'd go back to multiple chassis, various engines, and real bump qualifying every race. Heck, they even LOOKED like F1 from 3-5 years previous in a lot of cases.

Instead, we're left with IRL + ChampTracks and Drivers. This is an improvement, but...

I guess my gripe is that when it comes to the Top Tier of racing, unless it's Stock-based (GT, Sportscar, etc), I really REALLY don't like Spec-racings. This is also why I no longer follow NASCAR.

I know there's a lot of expense cutting going on to keep more teams and drivers interested in the series, but spec-racing also kills development.

When Lotus came out with Turbo in F1, everyone thought it was a joke... Until it worked. Since Honda is the ONLY engine in IndyCar, there's no chance of an engine manufacturer trying something new (hit OR miss).

When Ferrari introduced "Semi-Automatic Gears" and Paddle Shifters, they were denounced as too unreliable and slow. Now they're standard..... Even in IndyCar. As it stands now, unless IndyCar sees it in ANOTHER SERIES, they won't consider new techs.

When Williams added winglets to various parts of the chassis, people thought it looked funny... Until they noticed straight-line speeds weren't too negatively affected, but turning speeds were better. Since everyone in IndyCar has the exact same chassis (with minor wind-tunnel-based work done), Penske can't get his crews working on a better chassis as he did in the past.

Did I mention I hate Spec-Racing in Top Tier Series? ;->

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Time is a plaything, but if it breaks you're f-ed.

Forza2:

Formula 1 for me.

We got Kimi and Ferrari next year

 

F1 for sure.. I say we got Hamilton!!

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Almost all of the most advanced vehicle technology and components start in F1, then trickle their way down.  Right?

Trickles down to other race cars, and series.  Then things are put in to the road cars.  At first it's the high end road cars of Mercedes or Ferrari mostly.  Then it just trickles it's way down to the other road cars owned by the public.

Now with the F1 drivers having to drive the same cars with no assists, and they still run in the rain.  That's cool!!

 

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How on Earth can you possibly compare these two mention, Its ridicoulus to do so, Im a massive F1 fan which led to doing it on the xbox in Forza 2.

  The only main comparison is they both open wheel, well I can only speak of F1 as imm a UK resident where F1 is massive and the same for Indycar and NASCAR in the States, We dont know anything about Indycar and in the states they dont know much about F1.  My idea of Indycar and NASCAR is they both just going round literally in circles and personally I wouldmt want to watch that for free, This is just my Opinion so it aint personal.

   Also whoever said F1 was won through Pit Stops is Jokin right, Yeah that plays a big part but most is down to the Driver, and by the way a Pilot is a person who flys planes and Aircraft not a Driver, well speaking from the UK anyway. Lewis Hamilton and Kimi Raikkonen are RACE DRIVERS Not RACE PILOTS. Which is why Codemasters have called there last best EVER racing game TOCA RACE DRIVER, LoL.   I cant imagine it TOCA RACE PILOT 3, LMAO !!!!

   We both have our own veiws and F1 is by far the best racing, Its like Moto GP is in Bike Terms, Its the very TOP in Racing. Thats why Montaya retired from F1 and went to some racing in the U.S, coz he had the best years and wasnt good enough anymore, and a few descrepensies within the team I think.

    If Codemasters do a great job in there new F1 game which im sure they will, Then I dont see any benefit it will have for Forza, apart from me as a single racer will be moving to F1, I only play forza coz F1 on PS3 is Poo !!! Its aweful with very bad online Lag.

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UKOG~MICKEY:

How on Earth can you possibly compare these two mention, Its ridicoulus to do so, Im a massive F1 fan which led to doing it on the xbox in Forza 2.

  The only main comparison is they both open wheel, well I can only speak of F1 as imm a UK resident where F1 is massive and the same for Indycar and NASCAR in the States, We dont know anything about Indycar and in the states they dont know much about F1.  My idea of Indycar and NASCAR is they both just going round literally in circles and personally I wouldmt want to watch that for free, This is just my Opinion so it aint personal.

   Also whoever said F1 was won through Pit Stops is Jokin right, Yeah that plays a big part but most is down to the Driver, and by the way a Pilot is a person who flys planes and Aircraft not a Driver, well speaking from the UK anyway. Lewis Hamilton and Kimi Raikkonen are RACE DRIVERS Not RACE PILOTS. Which is why Codemasters have called there last best EVER racing game TOCA RACE DRIVER, LoL.   I cant imagine it TOCA RACE PILOT 3, LMAO !!!!

   We both have our own veiws and F1 is by far the best racing, Its like Moto GP is in Bike Terms, Its the very TOP in Racing. Thats why Montaya retired from F1 and went to some racing in the U.S, coz he had the best years and wasnt good enough anymore, and a few descrepensies within the team I think.

    If Codemasters do a great job in there new F1 game which im sure they will, Then I dont see any benefit it will have for Forza, apart from me as a single racer will be moving to F1, I only play forza coz F1 on PS3 is Poo !!! Its aweful with very bad online Lag.

Well we can compare any two things we like cant we?  I can compare an apple and an orange, despite what most people will say.

Besides, the two series are not that dissimilar.  At one point in time, CART and F1 were direct competitors(in many people's eyes).   Indy/Champ Car weren't always spec series, you know.  And Indy does race on road courses, just not that many of them. 

And before you go all laughing at somebody because they called a race driver a 'pilot', just know that in many countries, thats exactly how they refer to top-level motorsport drivers, particularly F1 drivers.  I'm on a very big F1 forum, and we have people from Greece, Turkey and a couple other countries who use the term pilot, and no one sits there and laughs at them as its a perfectly acceptable term. 

As far as F1 having the best racing, thats absolutely rubbish.  I'm a massive F1 fan, but I have to admit that I get my 'close racing' kicks elsewhere(A1GP is awesome!).  Maybe next year will be different with the new regulations, but for now, the only hope for an exciting race is the chance of rain.  There's decent races here and there, and I'll watch every second of it, dont get me wrong, but there's very little passing compared to most open-wheel series, particularly because of how overly aero-sensitive the cars have become.

I also find it funny that you admit to knowing nothing about Indy or NASCAR racing, yet go on to say that F1 is better by far.  Not that I'd completely disagree, but in your case, you're not exactly making an 'educated' opinion, are you? 

Montoya didn't leave F1 because he wasn't good enough anymore, thats just yet more rubbish.  He was doing fine.  Getting beat by Kimi, sure, but still doing just fine.  He left because he didn't like the overly-political atmosphere that surrounds F1.  He came from CART, you know, and he was used to the more open and free-to-be-yourself environment that it had.  Thats why he's enjoying NASCAR now, and I cant blame him, either.  F1 has become quite stale in that aspect.    

And if you didn't like F1 on the PS3, I wouldn't expect much more from Codemasters, either.  The fact that they most likely paid a pretty penny for the licensing fee, and that the new title will most likely be multi-console, will mean that they're probably going to try and appeal to a wider, less-hardcore(niche) audience, which means......no sim.  

I think that Turn 10 would a better candidate to make a good open-wheel sim, but I'm very happy with the direction they've taken as I'm a massive car enthusiast and racing enthusiast, so the game covers that entire spectrum while also providing some of the best 'real' racing action you'll get anywhere. 

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"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough"

-Mario Andretti

My Opinions Remain my Opinions and everyone has there own.

   I wanst stating facts as to the Montoya business, He was a great F1 driver, One of the best I presume as I only started getting into racing late in his last season.

  I wernt taking the mick m8 but was just saying how funny the game would look " Toca Race Pilot " and if you saying the most elite drivers generally get called a " PILOT " and seems as Toca was very realistic and Sim like then I wonder why they never used that term if your right, or is it YOUR opinion ?

   Codies know what they have to do with F1 and personally Id rather it in there hands by far than T10, mainly because Forza 2 is and always has been American based, it has some good cars and tracks but mostly American and even on these forums where im persistently asking for more european tracks as DLC theres just too many of them and not enough people from the UK or EU to support the european tracks,  They all asking for daft DRAG strips and DRIFT tracks and I believe they will get it too. Look at the tourneys too, They always in the American time zone. So therefore im very happy its in Codies hands and am over the moon T10 never got hold of it, They wouldnt have a clue really coz its all NASCAR and INDY, its not a bad thing but it just aint something I dont think T10 could pull off.

   Forza 2 is by far my best game at the moment so well done T10.

 We are all entitled to Opinions !!!! Not Facts !!!!

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UKOG~MICKEY:

My Opinions Remain my Opinions and everyone has there own.

   I wanst stating facts as to the Montoya business, He was a great F1 driver, One of the best I presume as I only started getting into racing late in his last season.

  I wernt taking the mick m8 but was just saying how funny the game would look " Toca Race Pilot " and if you saying the most elite drivers generally get called a " PILOT " and seems as Toca was very realistic and Sim like then I wonder why they never used that term if your right, or is it YOUR opinion ?

   Codies know what they have to do with F1 and personally Id rather it in there hands by far than T10, mainly because Forza 2 is and always has been American based, it has some good cars and tracks but mostly American and even on these forums where im persistently asking for more european tracks as DLC theres just too many of them and not enough people from the UK or EU to support the european tracks,  They all asking for daft DRAG strips and DRIFT tracks and I believe they will get it too. Look at the tourneys too, They always in the American time zone. So therefore im very happy its in Codies hands and am over the moon T10 never got hold of it, They wouldnt have a clue really coz its all NASCAR and INDY, its not a bad thing but it just aint something I dont think T10 could pull off.

   Forza 2 is by far my best game at the moment so well done T10.

 We are all entitled to Opinions !!!! Not Facts !!!!

I never said that most elite drivers get called pilots, did I?  I said that in certain countries, many people refer to F1 drivers as pilots.  Thats all.  It is NOT my opinion, but merely a FACT if you'd like to grapple with the difference. 

 And your statements about Montoya were stated as though they were facts.  You specifically said that he left F1 because he wasn't good enough anymore.  Again, using this opinion/fact defense isn't going to work. 

And you're completely off the mark about Turn 10.  The game is hardly America-centric, is it?  People are asking for drag strips, etc. but have they gotten one?  Nope.  In fact, from Forza 1 to Forza 2 they deleted a drag strip!  Kinda makes your whole argument null and void, doesn't it?  As well, drifting isn't an American-only thing(ever heard of the Japanese?).  

And tourneys are often in American times zones, cuz guess what?  The majority of Forza players are American.  Its not some anti-European conspiracy, or anything, man, you just really need to think about it a little more. 

And I cant help but think that your argument that Turn 10 wouldn't know how to pull off an F1 game cuz 'its all Indy and Nascar' over here' is a bit weak, too.  Turn 10 are obviously huge road racing fans from series all over the world.  Its plainly obvious by the cars they put in, and by a lot of the comments by Turn 10 in many of their updates, blogs, and whatever.  Just cuz we're American doesn't mean we dont or cant know F1.  Hell, I'm probably one of the biggest F1 fans you'll ever find anywhere, and I'm American! 

And I'll tell you a quick little story:

When I was young, my mom loved curry and cooked it all the time.  Whenever I was offered some, I would refuse.  After a few times she asked me, "Well why wont you try it?".   I said that I didn't like it.  She said, "Well how do you know you dont like it, you've never tried it?"  I said that I didn't think I would like it. 

A few years later, I was offered some curry again, and this time, I figured I'd try it out.  And guess what...........................I didn't like it.  But, at least then I could say that I know I dont like it. 

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"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough"

-Mario Andretti

I do tend to esperess how im feeling in my self in things I post, I dont know why I do that but its took me up until earlier this year to figure that out, Well thats what I think anyway when I actually thought about it, Thats why I end up writing loads coz Im actaully letting my feeling go a little to much without realising at the time. I would have to think to much to realise I could be quoted between opinions and facts if you know what I mean.

  I never said No Americans like F1 but the majority like what I said, Like for instance you could be F1`s biggest fan living in the U.S, Hope you now understand my meaning.

   I do still think Forza 2 is more American Orientated over anywhere else, It just feels American from the loading creen onwards, Thats not to say its not a cracking game though, If im honest with myself I love and adore this game more than any other, I just keep going back to it, Then if I get aches from the wheel or get a little bored and slap a different game in, Its not long at all before that Forza disc is reunited with the 360. I would love a better game as would anyone but am just trying to fight too much for a European racing game what I really miss from Toca 3, Like I said if Toca worked for the 360 then im sure many hardcore racers would still prefer Toca over Forza, Well im speaking for myself but from a Europeans aspect id rather Toca 3.

  T10 may be capable of creating a fine F1 game but to be honest id still prefer it in the hands of who has it right now for obvious reasons.

  I really dont know why but I just cant seem to help having a huge issue with this U.S/European thing because its something that should be shared equally and it never is, Its quite frustrating m8, Imagine if it was the other way round and you might understand where im coming from.  Rock Band for instance has only just last week came out in the U.K, I know it needs different coding or something but its always over there first. Its just a part of me thats grown and continues to grow after the abuse and stuff we get from kids mainly from the U.S, I feel very angry inside about it all and will just not speak about it anymore ok. Sorry man.

  No hard Feelings hopefully.

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UKOG~MICKEY:

I do tend to esperess how im feeling in my self in things I post, I dont know why I do that but its took me up until earlier this year to figure that out, Well thats what I think anyway when I actually thought about it, Thats why I end up writing loads coz Im actaully letting my feeling go a little to much without realising at the time. I would have to think to much to realise I could be quoted between opinions and facts if you know what I mean.

  I never said No Americans like F1 but the majority like what I said, Like for instance you could be F1`s biggest fan living in the U.S, Hope you now understand my meaning.

   I do still think Forza 2 is more American Orientated over anywhere else, It just feels American from the loading creen onwards, Thats not to say its not a cracking game though, If im honest with myself I love and adore this game more than any other, I just keep going back to it, Then if I get aches from the wheel or get a little bored and slap a different game in, Its not long at all before that Forza disc is reunited with the 360. I would love a better game as would anyone but am just trying to fight too much for a European racing game what I really miss from Toca 3, Like I said if Toca worked for the 360 then im sure many hardcore racers would still prefer Toca over Forza, Well im speaking for myself but from a Europeans aspect id rather Toca 3.

  T10 may be capable of creating a fine F1 game but to be honest id still prefer it in the hands of who has it right now for obvious reasons.

  I really dont know why but I just cant seem to help having a huge issue with this U.S/European thing because its something that should be shared equally and it never is, Its quite frustrating m8, Imagine if it was the other way round and you might understand where im coming from.  Rock Band for instance has only just last week came out in the U.K, I know it needs different coding or something but its always over there first. Its just a part of me thats grown and continues to grow after the abuse and stuff we get from kids mainly from the U.S, I feel very angry inside about it all and will just not speak about it anymore ok. Sorry man.

  No hard Feelings hopefully.

No hard feelings at all, I figure I'd just present an alternative point of view to mull over as it seems you weren't quite being very 'objective'. 

And I can assure you, I'm not America's biggest F1 fan.  There's a lot more than you'd think, however spread out we are.  In fact, the USGP(R.I.P.), was one the most highly attended GP's on the calendar.  On the F1 forum I'm on, there's a very suprising number of Americans on there(Planet F1, if you ever want to join an awesome and highly active F1 forum). 

I get your point, though, but you have to realize that the crowd that plays Forza are more likely to be interested in F1 than Indy or Nascar, purely because they can relate to it more.  In fact, it was Grand Turismo that first got me interested in F1(and racing in general) in the first place. 

And I think you're making much too big a deal out of this European/American thing, trying to create a war where there really isn't one.  I would love more European tracks, too, dont get me wrong, but it doesn't exactly take away from the game whatsoever.  Its still got Silverstone, Mugello, and the Nurburgring.  And you've got to admit the American(and American-style) tracks they put in are very good tracks(other than New York). 

I also dont see how Forza feels American from the get-go.  I think you need to take your Euro-biased glasses off and look at it.  Forza isn't even an American word.  I mean, nearly all the music in the game sounds like some strange Euro-pop.  There's more European/Japanese cars than American cars.  I think you're just trying to see 'AMERICAN' stamped all over the game, when its just not there.  You're trying to find something to get angry about, and I dont understand why, unless you have some kind of anti-American sentiments or something. 

And for what 'obvious' reasons would you rather Codemasters make an F1 game?  I seriously dont get it at all.  What can they do better than Turn 10?  Are they going to know more about F1 than Turn 10?  I think I've already answered that question.  Are they going to make it more realistic than Turn 10 would?  Doubtful as the DIRT engine they're going to base it off of is nowhere near 'sim' quality.  Are they going to build the tracks better?  I dont see why, the European tracks in Forza are extremely impressive.  So why?  I honestly cant think of one good reason. 

And I can think of it from 'the other way around'.  And guess what?  I dont care.  One bit.  Toca 3 was extremely Euro-centric, but I didn't care one bit.  Why would I?  I didn't feel insulted in any way or feel like 'my country' was being unfairly represented whatsoever.  (and I personally didn't like Toca 3 too much, but only because the physics were horrible) . I really dont get what the big deal is with you.  I love Final Fantasy games.  Japanese-centric as anything, but I dont care.  If its fun, its fun, you know?  

 

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"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough"

-Mario Andretti

yeah GT4 was one of the games that got me more into racing along with Toca 3 and F1 06 by Studio Liverpool on the PS2.  I think we must just have different views as to what the cars should feel like and I think Toca was awesome, like I said I would still race on that all the time if I could coz of the circuits and the whole Sim feeling. I know lots of top class drivers online and they all love Toca, now playing GT5P I think. Its just 2 different views. Codies I would believe will be more F1 driven and T10 I believe they may be fully capable but its just from my veiw, Thats what I think and the obvious reasons are because they seem to be heading the Drifting direction for 1, 2 is coz like ive said its more American type game, My opinion. The tourneys I enter, I always end up staying up till 3 am to race, then to find no one turns up. I just dont think they suit that type of game at all.

  However I reckon they more than capable of making the best Touring Car wether it be BTCC and WTCC or 1 or the other, Like Sim Bin did with GTR2 and WTCC Race, Theres an idea, GTR2 was ment to be coming to the 360 a while ago, Why dont T10 try and get that done, Would be outa this world. I believe they could do a fine job too.

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psz:

My "vote" would have to go to F! for a number of reasons (I'll get to the ChampCar/Indy merge later)

 

Firstly, F1 has stayed "truer" to what made me interested in it years ago: You still have various engines, various chassis, multiple tyre compounds and drivers from all over the world, including some champions of other series. The fact that the engines are "stuck" for the next couple of years initially annoyed me, but this year has seen BMW improve greatly and Toyota and Honda get better speed and reliability as well, so it works out.

Now... My gripes with IndyCar/ChampCar...

When it was announced that there would be a merger, I instantly thought "Great! American F1 With Ovals is back!" as that's what I considered The CART/IndyCar series of the 80s and early 90s. I figured they'd go back to multiple chassis, various engines, and real bump qualifying every race. Heck, they even LOOKED like F1 from 3-5 years previous in a lot of cases.

Instead, we're left with IRL + ChampTracks and Drivers. This is an improvement, but...

I guess my gripe is that when it comes to the Top Tier of racing, unless it's Stock-based (GT, Sportscar, etc), I really REALLY don't like Spec-racings. This is also why I no longer follow NASCAR.

I know there's a lot of expense cutting going on to keep more teams and drivers interested in the series, but spec-racing also kills development.

When Lotus came out with Turbo in F1, everyone thought it was a joke... Until it worked. Since Honda is the ONLY engine in IndyCar, there's no chance of an engine manufacturer trying something new (hit OR miss).

When Ferrari introduced "Semi-Automatic Gears" and Paddle Shifters, they were denounced as too unreliable and slow. Now they're standard..... Even in IndyCar. As it stands now, unless IndyCar sees it in ANOTHER SERIES, they won't consider new techs.

When Williams added winglets to various parts of the chassis, people thought it looked funny... Until they noticed straight-line speeds weren't too negatively affected, but turning speeds were better. Since everyone in IndyCar has the exact same chassis (with minor wind-tunnel-based work done), Penske can't get his crews working on a better chassis as he did in the past.

Did I mention I hate Spec-Racing in Top Tier Series? ;->

\

 

+1,000

Agreed

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UKOG~MICKEY:

yeah GT4 was one of the games that got me more into racing along with Toca 3 and F1 06 by Studio Liverpool on the PS2.  I think we must just have different views as to what the cars should feel like and I think Toca was awesome, like I said I would still race on that all the time if I could coz of the circuits and the whole Sim feeling. I know lots of top class drivers online and they all love Toca, now playing GT5P I think. Its just 2 different views. Codies I would believe will be more F1 driven and T10 I believe they may be fully capable but its just from my veiw, Thats what I think and the obvious reasons are because they seem to be heading the Drifting direction for 1, 2 is coz like ive said its more American type game, My opinion. The tourneys I enter, I always end up staying up till 3 am to race, then to find no one turns up. I just dont think they suit that type of game at all.

  However I reckon they more than capable of making the best Touring Car wether it be BTCC and WTCC or 1 or the other, Like Sim Bin did with GTR2 and WTCC Race, Theres an idea, GTR2 was ment to be coming to the 360 a while ago, Why dont T10 try and get that done, Would be outa this world. I believe they could do a fine job too.

You keep saying, 'its just my opinion, its just my opinion', but I dont understand what on earth you're basing 'your opinion' on other than pure bias.

For one, Toca 3 is not sim.  Thats not an opinion, its a fact.  The cars handled more like a Need for Speed game than any simulator.  You wont find very many people who will say that Toca 3 is 'sim'.  There comes a point where what we 'think' a car should feel like doesn't fall into opinions anymore as its definitely something that can be demonstrated.  I've watched real races at many of the Toca 3 tracks, and I can use later braking points, take turns faster than I should be able to, and many of the cars just dont have that sense of 'weight' they should.  Toca 3 may be fun for all its variety and tracks, but do not confuse it with a sim.  

How on earth is Forza heading into a 'drifting' direction?  What are you basing that on?!  Nothing, thats what.  There's a drifting community, sure, but has Forza released any tracks for them specifically?  Have they listened to their requests for more 'drift' cars?  Nope.  Again, they've actually deleted 'drift' tracks from Forza 1 to Forza 2, so again, I dont know what on earth you're basing 'your opinion' on. 

And again, what are you basing the statement that 'Forza 2 is more of an American type game' coming from? 

Again, you keep saying that its just your opinion, but I've yet to see you back up your opinions with any valid evidence!

And you really haven't refuted any of the points I've made against 'your opinions' either. 

This whole 'its just my opinion' defensive is wearing thin, man.  At one point, you're going to have to fact the FACTS. 

 

 

 

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"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough"

-Mario Andretti

Toca is a bloomin Sim, well more of a Sim than Forza is, I think youl find over here in the UK my friend a lot of people played and loved Toca 3 and thought it was very Sim like, I could send you in a direction of 1 website I was in a team with and there is about 79 members alone that came from Toca 3 and im sure they would say the same thing. Your seem to just be taking things to far and looking into facts a bit too much, I cant be chewed with ya m8 and in FACT ill keep on posting my opinions and yes I will say it again, Thats what Forums are for, Sorry.

  Its wearing thin on WHO ???  You ???? Well I could say exactly the same thing about you and your FACTS, LoL

  at first I thought you were quite sensible and listening to you but now your just bein and ass and takin things to far.

   Bye !!!

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UKOG~MICKEY:

Toca is a bloomin Sim, well more of a Sim than Forza is, I think youl find over here in the UK my friend a lot of people played and loved Toca 3 and thought it was very Sim like, I could send you in a direction of 1 website I was in a team with and there is about 79 members alone that came from Toca 3 and im sure they would say the same thing. Your seem to just be taking things to far and looking into facts a bit too much, I cant be chewed with ya m8 and in FACT ill keep on posting my opinions and yes I will say it again, Thats what Forums are for, Sorry.

  Its wearing thin on WHO ???  You ???? Well I could say exactly the same thing about you and your FACTS, LoL

  at first I thought you were quite sensible and listening to you but now your just bein and ass and takin things to far.

   Bye !!!

Yea, thats the response I usually get when I show people for what they are:  biased as all, with nothing to back it up.

Toca aint a sim, bud.  No matter what anyone says. 

Yea, you can keep posting all you like, but I'll keep exposing it all I like, too. 

And taking things too far?  I'm not the one sitting here calling people names, am I? 

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"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough"

-Mario Andretti

No matter what anyone says ?? Ha Ha, So this makes your words valid then yeah ?  Thought so, I merely stated my opinons and you dont like them and start going into all this Fact Jargon, people arnt gonna change there views just because you say so.

   Could you plz state or Quote who says Toca 3 wernt a Sim, would love to read it. Thats maybee why it has a Pro Sim setting in the game, Coz it aint a Sim, makes sense eh  !! Ha Ha !!!

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UKOG~MICKEY:

No matter what anyone says ?? Ha Ha, So this makes your words valid then yeah ?  Thought so, I merely stated my opinons and you dont like them and start going into all this Fact Jargon, people arnt gonna change there views just because you say so.

   Could you plz state or Quote who says Toca 3 wernt a Sim, would love to read it. Thats maybee why it has a Pro Sim setting in the game, Coz it aint a Sim, makes sense eh  !! Ha Ha !!!

I dont expect people to change their views just because I say something, but I do find it funny when people will be stubborn enough to not even question their own views when presented with valid evidence that may suggest that they're very wrong(and I'm mainly talking about all the other things we were talking about that you had no retort to).

Super Mario Kart could have a 'pro sim' setting, would you then consider it sim?  The fact is that the cars handle very arcadey and unrealistic, the racing AI itself are awful and the only saving grace the game has is the variety of racing and tracks it offers.  I've got no bias against the game, I bought it and played it plenty, but I'm not blind enough to not see its flaws either. 

I'd love to go and dig up posts and sites where people(in the know) say that Toca 3 isn't a sim, but that just doesn't seem to be a very worthwhile usage of my time here on earth. 

Just cuz 79 people you know in the UK call it a sim doesn't make it a sim.  I'm pretty sure I could find 79 people that live in the UK that believe in alien abductions, does that make them right? 

If you want to know what a sim is, look up rFactor, GTR2 and Live for Speed.  Those are simulators.  Even Forza 2, while not a hardcore sim like these, is still much more in tune with the real phsyics of driving than Toca is, which makes it much more sim-like than Toca, and with GT, is probably the closest you'll get to a real sim on a console. 

Of course its arguable and you can be entitled to your opinion about this, but again, it doesn't change the fact that if you went out and drove a car like you can in Toca 3, you'd be in some serious trouble very quickly.  Not saying the other 'real' sims are perfect, but they certainly do heaps better job than Toca 3(I have to keep specifying '3' because 2 wasn't as bad, never played 1) of giving you a much better feel for how a car feels when driven at its limit. 

And I love how people put in 'lol''s and 'HA HA's in their post as if they know they're so right and other guy doesn't know what they're talking about.  Oh, the irony.

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"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough"

-Mario Andretti