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So I came across this interesting story today:
http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/motoring-news/story/porsche_accuses_nissan_of_cheating_at_nurburgring/

Apparently Porsche was (understandably) suspicious of the GT-R's laptimes, with the car being heavier than the 911 Turbo with the same power, so they bought a stock, US GT-R with street tires, and took it to the famous race track. They also brought along their own 997 Turbo and GT2, also on the street tires. The results? They could "only" muster a 7:54, which is a good 25 seconds behind Nissan's claimed time of 7:29. Both the 911 Turbo and the GT2 beat the GT-R (Big surprise, right?). So, is Porsche right? Is Nissan really inflating the GT-R's track abilities, or is Porsche just whining about being beaten?

Just for the sake of the discussion, let's try to leave the ZR-1 out of it.

What are your guys thoughts?

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RIP Paul Newman, you'll be greatly missed.

"God invented turbo lag to give V8's a chance."

Well they did cheat slightly..but nothing that should be worth 35 seconds. The GT-R is a sweet car but the 911's should outrun it at a longer track like this.

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The fact they bought the US version could be a problem, normally manufactuers would make their homeland version to the best of its ability, and it could be porsches driver.

The only way to really settle this is get both porsche and nissan to get their best driver out on the ring to prove each cars capibilities

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CURRENTLY WITHOUT PERMANENT XBOX LIVE + LACK OF TIME TO BE ON XBOX ITSELF, BUT I'LL BE ON FORUMS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE DUE TO INTERNET ACCESS AT COLLEGE

LOL uh ohhhh, prepare for lots of highly defensive teens to post in this thread! They were already outed for using cut slicks by chevy, I can't see how anyone would be surprised by this. As the story states, the math just never added up.

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ur right; the 1st mistake is the US car;

they should get a Japan spec GTR and a Euro Spec 911 TT

and have this guy drive it Horst von Saurma; he drives on the ring the most;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordschleife_fastest_lap_times

 

 

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Motorsports For Life

They probably used a US spec version because there isn't any chance of the speed limiter that is on Japanese versions kicking in. I know they are supposed to shut off when you reach a track, but just a guess.

The only other real difference in the US and Japanese versions is one is left hand drive and the other is right hand drive. Their home market version is no better than the ones they export.

As for the times, a car with that much weight and relatively low level of power would not be expected to be anywhere near a 7:29, so in that sense it is quite possible that they caught Nissan in a lie. Of course the point of the GT-R was to use unconventional technology and setup to still be fast. So who knows.

And I don't think Porsche have challenged the ZR1's time because the numbers make sense when a car that only weighs a bit over 3000lbs and has 620bhp puts together a lap that fast.

what the man said above. take the car from their point of origin and get a person who knows hot to drive and has no leniancy.

Anyway, don't GTR's have different power as each engine and gearbox is handbuilt?

Sean

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"A lot of people go through life doing things badly. Racing’s important to men who do it well.When you’re racing, it... it’s life. Anything that happens before or after... is just waiting." - Steve McQueen, Le Mans (1971)

Well in US we have a thing called emissions, its only right for porsche to grab the Japan spec. As when cars are imported to America there downgraded. why alot of race teams and such import the car from its home country.

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the funny thing is the Jspec has a top speed of 112MPH!

http://carnoise.blogspot.com/2008/04/japanese-spec-nissan-gt-r-r35-ecu.html

the US is at 155MPH!!!

so the one that was used had to have the ECU modded;

so if u did the math; on the straight; it does it i think in 25 secs; and the lenth is 2.4 miles... wait that means it would be doing like 500mph... i messed up LOL

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Motorsports For Life

this just in... child upset takes ball and goes home

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lookie at my perdy pictures

Blitzwing:

this just in... child upset takes ball and goes home

i lol'd

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"A lot of people go through life doing things badly. Racing’s important to men who do it well.When you’re racing, it... it’s life. Anything that happens before or after... is just waiting." - Steve McQueen, Le Mans (1971)

vader540is:

the funny thing is the Jspec has a top speed of 112MPH!

http://carnoise.blogspot.com/2008/04/japanese-spec-nissan-gt-r-r35-ecu.html

the US is at 155MPH!!!

so the one that was used had to have the ECU modded;

so if u did the math; on the straight; it does it i think in 25 secs; and the lenth is 2.4 miles... wait that means it would be doing like 500mph... i messed up LOL

Those numbers work out to an avg speed 345.6MPH on the straight, so that cant be right LOL.

Also, since they were using two completely stock cars with NO modifications whatsoever, they probably used the U.S. spec GTR so that it would at least be able to get up to a decent speed and have a chance. If they had used the JDM version and were limited to 112, the GTR would have gotten destroyed much more severely!

In order for the test to be fair both cars must be stock, and that includes ECU and tires. If you want to get into modified comparisons, you have to look at modified 911s as well.

This basically boils down to Nissan blowing smoke up everyones tailpipe, trying to make a grand and veiled statement to generate copious amounts of hype. It worked quite well, but they have been called out on it multiple times now.

If Nissan had just gone with the truth, that the GTR will hang with some of the best sports cars in the world and is an absolutely spectacular car, everything would be fine and no one would be speculating or denouncing them. But, they decided to bend the truth to the point of basically telling a lie, claiming that it's basically the greatest car ever with this bogus lap time business and costs sooo much less than anything that is comparable - which, in reality is not true because they are really selling for about $120K, rather than their 'suggested' price of $70-ish-K. All Nissan did was to set the MSRP lower than the actual market value of the car, its a marketing ploy and nothing else. The cars were never intended to sell for that low of a price, it was to get those out there who do not possess the gift of critical thought to blindly follow the empty claims and blow the trumpets of victory when there had been none to speak of.

That said, I think the GTR is a superb machine, but Nissan has proven themselves to be not-so-credible and has been caught over reaching on this one.

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The latest issue of Car and Driver magazine mentions some widely varying performance from different Nissan GT-R's that they have received.

If I remember correctly, they said the car actually makes more horsepower than advertised.

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Click image to see the car's sale thread.
GT: EXOR x Bart x
http://www.exodusracing.net/ - Unassisted Racing at its Finest

if anyone wacthes the vid of the R35 on the ring; and time it yourself and count the meter makers ; u can see the vid is not in real time; as most of u know my math is bad lol ok ... no more drinks for me...

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Motorsports For Life

Seansy:

what the man said above. take the car from their point of origin and get a person who knows hot to drive and has no leniancy.

Anyway, don't GTR's have different power as each engine and gearbox is handbuilt?

Sean

That's the key. Each GTR has a handbuilt engine that produces different HP. Maybe Nissan took the best one they could find, and Porsche just grabbed one at random (or grabbed a lower powered one)

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Wheezy 41
Ferrari Fanatic

Wheezy 41:

Seansy:

what the man said above. take the car from their point of origin and get a person who knows hot to drive and has no leniancy.

Anyway, don't GTR's have different power as each engine and gearbox is handbuilt?

Sean

That's the key. Each GTR has a handbuilt engine that produces different HP. Maybe Nissan took the best one they could find, and Porsche just grabbed one at random (or grabbed a lower powered one)

The power would vary, but not that greatly. Not enough to make a roughly 30 second lap difference.

That's the key. Each GTR has a handbuilt engine that produces different HP. Maybe Nissan took the best one they could find, and Porsche just grabbed one at random (or grabbed a lower powered one)

And Porsche's aren't handbuilt?  Thats a pretty poor excuse, Chevrolet hand builds their LS7's and they don't vary in performance, same with Ford's SVT motors.  As far as Jap vs US spec GT-R, does the Jap-spec GT-R have catalytic converters on it like it does in US?  Otherwise, whats really the difference one way or another which one they chose.  I admit its very odd to pick the US version, but if it ends up not being any different from the US spec then so what?

Now to defend the GT-R, Porsche's complaint is that they can't get the GT-R to do the same time on street tires and that Nissan must of used racing tires.  Ok, well what the hell do you call the Michelin Sport Cup tires the GT2 uses in your comparison? 

THAT'S a street tire??  BS to that.  Thats a competitive racing tire with a bit of tread on it to be "street legal".  Good luck in the rain with that.

The question is, what tires did they use on the GT-R?  Are they the Bridgestone summer tires?  Or are they using the Dunlop all-seasons? 

If they used the Bridgestones pictured above, its a somewhat fair comparison.  Those Bridgestones are runflats though, the Michelins are not.  Michelin > Bridgestone anyways.  If they used the Dunlops...then that isn't fair at all.

Fact is if you want a good comparison of what both cars can do, run full racing slicks on both cars and then do your laps.  Same brand slick, same compound, same tire pressure.  The GT-R has also proven itself to be a better handling car on many different tracks than the 911, big deal if it isn't faster on the 'Ring.  The car rattled you that much eh Porsche?

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TGM Racing
GT: CNU PhYsIcS

i think everyone is downing the GTR because its JAP, not EUR; Its an underpowered, overwiegt super-sports car (notice how i DID NOT say supercar); and its very capaple of beating most cars around the ring. or any track for that matter. and with the ECU, nissan probably took off the speed limiter since the ring is a speed track, it makes sense to me for a car manufacture to take off any kjind of performace limiter dont you think??

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this is still going on?

my god. some rich bugger go buy an R35 and a few toehr competetive ring cars and give them ALL to sabine to run on one day. THEN its settled.

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aba is not amused, sig was removed

i like porsche but their just upset that the GT-R is cheaper and keeps up with their expensive cars. i think they got over the Z06. lol

maybe porsche will build a car in the same price range $70 - $90 (thousands). man i really wish more car manufactures made high performance cars for those prices.

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ISRC RACER09